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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 20, 2019 at 12:10 am
(September 19, 2019 at 7:23 pm)Lek Wrote: (September 19, 2019 at 6:12 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: But Lek, don't you see that as an issue?
Wouldn't you be skeptical of a product that only had positive reviews from people who worked for the company that made the product?
Do you understand how bias works?
And no, interestingly enough, plenty of people who are already religious have "experiences with god." It's not as if everyone who has had a revelation of some sort was a non-believer, but through their experience became a believer.
What I'm saying is that a religious person is going to have spiritual experiences with God because they commune with God. An atheist isn't likely to have one because he doesn't commune with God. I just was qualifying when I made the statement about some non-believers having these experiences, but it's going to happen more with those who are truly searching.
We heard you and your ilk before. What you are saying is as wrong now as it was everything it was spoken before, and as wrong as it will be every time when you repeat it.
A religious person is going to have a spiritual experience with god not because they managed to actually commune with a figment of their imagination, but because they imagined they communed with a figment of their imagination.
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 20, 2019 at 12:44 am
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2019 at 12:45 am by GrandizerII.)
(September 18, 2019 at 6:37 pm)Lek Wrote: I've been asked a zillion times in this forum to give evidence for why I believe in God and each time the questioner comes back and tells me that's not real evidence. Here's the situation. We have a being who is supernatural. He/She/It can exist without the need to obey any natural laws and therefore, cannot be understood or explained by natural or scientific means.
I always reply that I believe because God has directly impressed me with the awareness of his existence. I list supporting factors as the witness of other believers, evidence of ghosts and other supernatural phenomena, etc. A very conservative estimate of the number of people in the world today who believe in God, in this scientific age, is five billion. These people are from every profession and walk of life.
If God directly illuminates me through supernatural means which cannot be tested by any natural means, how can I give you any other solid evidence other than to relate my experience? You might say I'm suffering from a delusion, but I have no other history of delusions and billions of others who have no history of delusions also believe in God. Billions of these people are moderately or well-educated and realize that the earth revolves around the sun, as you do.
Why don't you accept this as evidence for God?
Partly because we have fairly good psychological/scientific explanations for these worldwide beliefs.
But anyhow while you may not be able to provide evidence that you've been "directly illuminated" by the Divine, you could at least be more convincing about your experiences. What exactly is your experience with God anyway? As far as I'm concerned, you're mistaken about your belief, but I can always listen.
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 20, 2019 at 9:49 am
Telling me what you believe is not the same thing as giving me evidence that what you believe is true. There's a saying: 'show, don't tell'.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 20, 2019 at 11:00 am
@ Mister Agenda
He doesn't seem to understand this basic concept. I don't really know what to say and he keeps dodging my questions, or he's just not seeing them, I'm not sure but I made sure to quote him every time.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 20, 2019 at 2:18 pm
(September 19, 2019 at 3:25 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: (September 19, 2019 at 3:05 pm)Lek Wrote: . I think you're all living in a little box, which you feel secure in,
Yeah a real perpetual Christmas morning that atheism is. I mean in one post theists accuse us to be depressed because of atheism, but in another they declare atheism to be safe and comfortable place.
Atheism isn't a comfortable place, its just not being convinced by the idea of gods.
It is not a replacement for that idea with another.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 21, 2019 at 9:38 am
(September 19, 2019 at 7:23 pm)Lek Wrote: What I'm saying is that a religious person is going to have spiritual experiences with God because they commune with God. An atheist isn't likely to have one because he doesn't commune with God. I just was qualifying when I made the statement about some non-believers having these experiences, but it's going to happen more with those who are truly searching.
“The God excuse: The last refuge of the man with no answers and no arguments!” (George Carlin)
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 21, 2019 at 9:47 am
(September 19, 2019 at 7:23 pm)Lek Wrote: What I'm saying is that a religious person is going to have spiritual experiences with God because they commune with God. Demonstrate that this is true. 
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 21, 2019 at 9:53 am
(September 19, 2019 at 7:23 pm)Lek Wrote: What I'm saying is that a religious person is going to have spiritual experiences with God because they commune with God.
![[Image: 243cc5f930853e1c6598cce73ef8ea19.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/QCYf3J5y/243cc5f930853e1c6598cce73ef8ea19.jpg)
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 21, 2019 at 1:18 pm
Okay. I give up. You got my reasons for believing. I'll get back to you when I can offer you some scientific evidence.
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RE: Evidence for Believing
September 21, 2019 at 1:32 pm
(September 21, 2019 at 1:18 pm)Lek Wrote: Okay. I give up. You got my reasons for believing.
Yes, and those reasons were:
#1 Lots of other people do believe as well
#2 I had a "personal experience"
Still not very compelling to me. Not.at.all.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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