Age of Deconversion

[John 6IX Breezy]

I'll just add more to my questions above.  If you would "kindly decline" to do what god ordered, what would that make you?  Sinful or virtuous?  If god handled your declination (or failure) as it handled the failure of israel to carry out it's order..what would that make god?

A being more or less deserving of worship?  A being more or less qualified to wield the power to condemn you for your own assumed human decency?  Is god the author of that human decency?  Does it expect something other that what it created?  Why...and what would that tell you about the god you worship?

If I'm right for declining then perhaps virtuous, and if I'm wrong then perhaps sinful. Moses seems to have been viewed as virtuous for standing up against God; and although I don't know the specific example you have in mind, it seems to imply that Israel was viewed as sinful for not complying. So it can go both ways depending on the specifics I suppose.

I'm not sure I understand your second set of questions, can you clarify?

[The Grand Nudger]

Why would you be wrong for declining to carry out that order? What specifics does that depend on?

What specifics would make you wrong, for refusing to skullfuck your neighbor, and sell his daughters into slavery?

[LastPoet]

The association is simply the impression I've gotten; which I'm open to being false. Hence why I wonder if there are atheists here that agree with the Christian narrative that God is love, while maintaining that he is fiction.

Some of us did believe that, as yours truly testified. That no longer happens as I was a young child, fascinated by the stories about that wonderful thing that was god. The reason it's the christian god only pertains only to the geographical point where I was brought up. You would be worshipping allah if you were born in the middle east.

[The Grand Nudger]

Indeed. I'm starting to worry that John hasn't thought this through. From those simple questions to the set of mysterious ways he very clearly has in mind with regards to skull fucking and sexual slavery, even as he insists that mysterious ways do not apply to skullfucking and sexual slavery.

[LastPoet]

Indeed.  I'm starting to worry that John hasn't thought this through.  From those simple questions to the set of mysterious ways he very clearly has in mind with regards to skull fucking and sexual slavery, even as he insists that mysterious ways do not apply to skullfucking and sexual slavery.

Like Richelieu said "betrayal is a matter of dates", I say "religion is just about the place you were born".

[John 6IX Breezy]

Why would you be wrong for declining to carry out that order? What specifics does that depend on?  

What specifics would make you wrong, for refusing to skullfuck your neighbor, and sell his daughters into slavery?

Those specifics would, by their very nature, lie outside what I currently know; otherwise I wouldn't think I'm right, or at the very least would have taken them into consideration before making my decision. I see myself as only responsible for the variables under my control and within my knowledge. Presumably God sees all the variables and the bigger picture; so if I'm wrong you would have to ask him, not me, why that is.

[The Grand Nudger]

Mysterious ways, then. It does apply. Then, it may be virtuous. I didn't need to ask a god to realize that, and neither did you. You answered it yourself.

You're either more open to skullfucking your neighbor and selling his daughter than you think..and don't wish to acknowledge that, or less open to the same, and mysterious ways, and don't wish to acknowledge that. Either way this should provide you some insight into how others apprehend such gods, and themselves, and you. Is it beyond the pale that a person might begin to associate god and god belief with evil when we see things like this? Even if we began believing that god and god belief were good?

Presumably..you're a good person, who believes in a good god, but when asked this very specific question..a good person who worships a good god begins to imagine that under some circumstance unknown to them, skullfucking his neighbor and selling his daughter into sexual slavery on command of that god is virtuous.

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I've got another one for you, a deconversion question along the same lines. If you didn't believe that stringing up a jew could pay for your innumerable sins, would you still believe in gods?

[John 6IX Breezy]

Mysterious ways, then.  It does apply.  Then, it may be virtuous.  I didn't need to ask a god to realize that, and neither did you.  You answered it yourself.

You're either more open to skullfucking your neighbor and selling his daughter than you think..and don't wish to acknowledge that, or less open to the same, and mysterious ways, and don't wish to acknowledge that.  Either way this should provide you some insight into how others apprehend such gods, and themselves, and you.  Is it beyond the pale that a person might begin to associate god and god belief with evil when we see things like this?  Even if we began believing that god and god belief were good?

For the concept of mysterious ways to have an application here, I would need to have used it to either justify God's request or my own actions. I've done neither of those. That being said, I'm neither against nor in favor of "mysterious ways;" mysteries are an inherent part of understanding any thinking being that is independent of ourselves. Why did Jessica not text me back? Why did my coworker put the papers here? Why did God allow this to happen? In psychology this is called theory of mind, our attempt to understand the cognitive infrastructure that led to a given behavior in another person; that infrastructure is inherently mysterious. So God's ways will always be mysterious, for the simple fact that he is God and I'm not him.

Don't confuse the mysterious gap that exists between any two thinking beings, with the usage of that gap to justify a behavior.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're only arguing with yourself, above. I'm comfortable with you just the way you are, however it is you are.

-but, about stringing up a jew to cover for all the times you touched yourself? If you didn't believe that, or if it didn't work, would you still believe in gods?

Would you do it yourself? Would you go and find the jew, and torture him, and hold him up on the bar, and drive the nail, and listen to his screams and pleas for mercy, and make sure that no one took him down until he was dead?

[John 6IX Breezy]

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I've got another one for you, a deconversion question along the same lines.  If you didn't believe that stringing up a jew could pay for your innumerable sins, would you still believe in gods?

If God exists, then he exists regardless of what he does or doesn't do. So whether or not he is good or evil, whether or not Jesus died for my sins, and whether or not I'm going to heaven or hell, non of these variables affect God's existence.