[Quranic Reflection]: The tolerance the Quran gave non-believers

[The Architect Of Fate]

Really, so if someone start shooting me from a very close range but keeps missing me until billions of bullets are wasted, wouldn't that mean he's cross eyed, or that I can't make such a conclusion because I survived?

Though it's highly likely he may have bad eyesight .His gun might be defective. 

How many more bullets do you need to start believing he missed on purpose?

I could just ask him directly.By the way this analogy isn't even close to what your trying to compare it too

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Of course, and what we understand so far about the universe and the extreme unlikeliness of our existence should warrant an explanation.

Personnel credulity 

Physics is not all there is. Back to my analogy : the existence of marksman who just killed a bird is then - according to you - unknowable from the viewpoint of a physicist if he doesn't witness him shooting. The investigator finds out the bullet - already a sophisticated element in its own right - punctured vital organs of the bird, the trajectory seemed to be very very precise and tuned. Can the investigator then say : that's all I can know, there is a bullet, a dead bird with a punctured head, and that's it? The whole scene in front of the investigator absolutely warrants an explanation, even if it were not true or not provable formally, it's still the only reasonable thing to do.

Bad analogy and founded on mere assertions none of which you have demonstrated.Either you demonstrate or it can be rejected

[WinterHold]

What kind of evidence are you looking for exactly? I said repeatedly expert judgment is the only possible way for people who don't speak Arabic to understand why the Qur'an is unique.

”Unique” is not equivalent to “shown to be likely true”. Can’t use book to prove book is magic. That’s a question begging fallacy. I mean...In case I hadn’t pointed that out already, lol. What kind of evidence am I looking for? Any at all would be nice.

The Quran is all about its meaning; it's not a book of magic or spells; with its own admission:

Sura 13, The Quran:
https://quran.com/13/31?translations=
Mufti Taqi Usmani

(31) And even if there were a Qur’ān wherewith the mountains could be moved, or the earth could be split apart, or wherewith the dead are spoken to, (they would not believe). In fact, every decision rests only with Allah. Are the believers not satisfied with the fact that, if Allah willed, He would have brought all the people to the right path?And the disbelievers are continually receiving affliction because of what they did, or it visits somewhere close to their homes, until Allah’s promise will come to pass. Surely, Allah does not go back upon His promise.

The Quran is not a magic book capable of magic tricks.
I should note though that the Quran is meant for all people, it doesn't need the disgusting religious institutions of today to hold control over it as Klorophyll/MK above keeps repeating. It can be translated and understood without the help of any institution.

[The Architect Of Fate]

What kind of evidence are you looking for exactly? I said repeatedly expert judgment is the only possible way for people who don't speak Arabic to understand why the Qur'an is unique.

Religious excuse making

[LadyForCamus]

”Unique” is not equivalent to “shown to be likely true”. Can’t use book to prove book is magic. That’s a question begging fallacy. I mean...In case I hadn’t pointed that out already, lol. What kind of evidence am I looking for? Any at all would be nice.

The Quran is all about its meaning; it's not a book of magic or spells; with its own admission:

Sura 13, The Quran:
https://quran.com/13/31?translations=
Mufti Taqi Usmani

(31) And even if there were a Qur’ān wherewith the mountains could be moved, or the earth could be split apart, or wherewith the dead are spoken to, (they would not believe). In fact, every decision rests only with Allah. Are the believers not satisfied with the fact that, if Allah willed, He would have brought all the people to the right path?And the disbelievers are continually receiving affliction because of what they did, or it visits somewhere close to their homes, until Allah’s promise will come to pass. Surely, Allah does not go back upon His promise.

The Quran is not a magic book capable of magic tricks.
I should note though that the Quran is meant for all people, it doesn't need the disgusting religious institutions of today to hold control over it as Klorophyll/MK above keeps repeating. It can be translated and understood without the help of any institution.

I’m being tongue in cheek, Atlas. But, the book certainly contains claims of magic that the three of you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

[R00tKiT]

Are you insinuating that Shakespeare’s works have been demonstrated to be non fiction simply by way of reading them?  

Please answer my questions instead of raising other ones.

There is no such thing as “irreducible complexity.”

Thank you for opening my eyes to truth. James Tour will be more than happy to meet you if you could defend this sentence up to the molecular level.

That’s an ‘personal incredulity’ fallacy erroneously propped up as scientific fact.

That's just you presenting ongoing and constantly changing scientific research as *facts*. Why would things like the Piltdown Man happen if there were not holes in the theory?

Misunderstanding evolution is not fostering a positive case for god.

Misrepresenting evolution doesn't help either.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Thank you for opening my eyes to truth. James Tour will be more than happy to meet you if you could defend this sentence up to the molecular level.

James Tour is a man who has allowed his religious opinions to override his scientific objectivity .And his bullshit has been refuted over and over by his colleagues.A sad way to end a successful career .

That's just you presenting ongoing and constantly changing scientific research as *facts*. Why would things like the Piltdown Man happen if there were not holes in the theory?

1.The fact science expands it knowledge on evidence does not mean you get to dismiss it findings .Nor does it make i not a fact

2.Tons of scientists rejected pelt down from he start because it didn't fit what we understood about human evolution .Those who pushed it were more interested in pushing a eurocentric origin of humanity then evolution as a whole .And it was evolutionary science that exposed it as a hoax .By the way the existence of pelt down man in no way shape or form showed any holes in evolution as a science .

Misrepresenting evolution doesn't help either.

Good thin she didn't do that then .It's a fact get over it .

[Stoneheart]

The attitude of a Muslim towards non-belief and to non-believers has been a source of constant criticism of the Quran; claimed by many to be "extremist and non-tolerant" towards non-belief.

But the contents of the Quran are the exact opposite. Reading the verses in the Quran regarding how to treat non-belief and non-believers can tell us a lot:

This is a reason for unbelief:

What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man like us to be His Messenger?" 17:94.


And it seems Muslims that will only believe in the Quran are also unbelievers according to the Quran:


　
Then sent We our messengers in succession: every time there came to a people their messenger, they accused him of falsehood: so We made them follow each other in punishment: We made them as a tale that is told: So away with a people that will not believe! 23:44

There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe. 12:111

　

Before thee We sent messengers to many nations, and We afflicted the nations with suffering and adversity, that they might learn humility. 6:42

O mankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other not that ye may despise each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things. 49:13

But they said: "Our Lord! Place longer distances between our journey-stages": but they wronged themselves therein. At length We made them as a tale that is told, and We dispersed them all in scattered fragments. Verily in this are Signs for every soul that is patiently constant and grateful. 34:19
　

Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and those who wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And those who wish to take a course midway,- 4:150

They are in truth equally unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment. 4:151

[LadyForCamus]

Are you insinuating that Shakespeare’s works have been demonstrated to be non fiction simply by way of reading them?  

Please answer my questions instead of raising other ones.

I was merely asking you to clarify what you mean, but sure:

expert judgment is zero evidence to you? How do non native speakers usually know Shakespeare was a really good writer without the need of reading him?

”Expert judgement” of a literary work is, at best, evidence that the person is familiar with that particular work. That has no bearing, by itself, on the truth of the contents of the literary work. Anyone who claims such a thing is begging the question. To avoid a circular argument, the “expert” would need external, corroborating evidence. Got it yet?

Thank you for opening my eyes to truth. James Tour will be more than happy to meet you if you could defend this sentence up to the molecular level.

Your welcome. Tell me, do you have an argument that either 1., doesn’t attempt to shift the burden of proof or, 2. isn’t grounded in a logical fallacy?  I’ll wait.

[LadyForCamus]

@Klorophyll

LOL. Your James Tour even explicitly states the fallacy aloud while defending his position. Bold, mine:

Tour said that the explanations offered by evolution are incomplete, and he found it hard to believe that nature can produce the machinery of cells through random processes.

The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone decides that something did not happen, because they cannot personally understand how it could happen. The fallacy is an argument from ignorance and an informal fallacy.

The fallacy lies in the unstated premise. If a state of affairs is impossible to imagine, it doesn't follow that it is false; it may only mean that imagination is limited. Moreover, if no one has yet managed to imagine how a state of affairs is possible, it doesn't follow that no one will ever be able to.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Hilarious.

[Brian37]

The attitude of a Muslim towards non-belief and to non-believers has been a source of constant criticism of the Quran; claimed by many to be "extremist and non-tolerant" towards non-belief.

But the contents of the Quran are the exact opposite. Reading the verses in the Quran regarding how to treat non-belief and non-believers can tell us a lot:

1- Sura 2, 256:

Sura 2, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

This ancient verse can be located in Sura 2, verse 256. It's obvious as daylight: compulsion and enforcing of Islam is highly forbidden, since the right course is clear from the wrong.

2-Sura 60, 8:

Sura 60, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 8 )   Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

This ancient verse can be located in Sura 60, verse 8. It's also obvious as daylight, that being "just" and "righteous" towards non-believers who don't fight Muslims because of their choice of faith is a cause of God's love.

Other implicit meanings of tolerance towards peaceful non-believers are also present and numerous in the Quran.

I should note that these verses existed since 1400 years with archeological evidence on their side:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-60183.html

There is not one religion in human history, that does not have a diversity of flowers and sub sects that agree on interpretation.

There are followers of EVERY religion in the world, that make excuses for tribalism and violence as much as others under the same labels respectively make justifications for peace.

There ARE good people in every religion. And there are fearful people, and power hungry people in every religion. There is not one nation on earth, friend or foe alike, that does not have hospitals and prisons. That says to me our species morality is not in a label, but in our actions as individuals.