Real Men

[Mr Greene]

It was her choice.  She could have easily gone on the dole and made enough that way to support herself and the kids.  It isn't always outside circumstances that define heroism.  Sometimes it's what we do when we don't have to.

Boru

That's not heroism - but an excellent case of leading by example.

It's what good parents do.

You do realise that being your kids' hero is  a non negotiable part of the job description?

[EgoDeath]

I once knew a widowed mum with three children. She worked three jobs to keep the kids from being hungry and homeless rather than resort to public assistance. That’s always struck me as pretty heroic.

Boru

Now that's one manly bitch.

[The Grand Nudger]

Antiquated problem. Nowadays, people work three jobs and -still- end up on assistance. That may not be the case, depending on where we are..but in the US, multiplying service wages by three still leaves you below federal poverty.

Adjusted for family size, you can make just under six figures and still get an ebt card, and not because we're handing them out on a whim.

[tackattack]

Strangely I think I agree with the overall OLB point on heroes. Going above the call of duty. To see a firefighter rush into a building to save 2 kids seems brave and honorable, but not necessarily heroic. To watch a passerby do it, because it's not their "job" seems fittingly heroic.

@Mr Greene -I disagree. Being your kids hero is not "part of the job" of parenting. I actually agree with OLB that it's the example part that is part of the job description by necessity at the very least. I don't think anything in the quality of that example necessitate heroism as part of the job. Parents have a super amount of influence on a child's formative years and in hindsight usually seem like an ideal that is either thoughtlessly mimicked or sought for intentionally.

Factoring that with the above example, if your child sees you be the stranger that does something heroic, then that's an added caveat to your example. I've seen people upset with their partner for doing something they saw as "risky" or "dumb" to be heroic to a stranger, putting their lives at risk to the immediate family member and got scolded for it instead of praised as a hero.

[EgoDeath]

Nothing's more annoying than your classic, good 'ol good samaritan.

I can't tell you how many narcissistic, arrogant "good samaritans" I know.

[Shell B]

I don't think obligation negates heroism one bit. A firefighter can still turn around and not do his job out of fear. I firefighter still makes a choice to enter a burning building, from the moment he or she signs up. They aren't particularly obligated, and they definitely don't lose their hero status because they might be obligated. A good firefighter is one of the most heroic people on the planet. Put on those clothes and go for a walk in the park and tell me you'd still run into a burning building wearing them.

[Mr Greene]

Strangely I think I agree with the overall OLB point on heroes. Going above the call of duty. To see a firefighter rush into a building to save 2 kids seems brave and honorable, but not necessarily heroic. To watch a passerby do it, because it's not their "job" seems fittingly heroic.

@Mr Greene -I disagree. Being your kids hero is not "part of the job" of parenting.  I actually agree with OLB that it's the example part that is part of the job description by necessity at the very least. I don't think anything in the quality of that example necessitate heroism as part of the job. Parents have a super amount of influence on a child's formative years and in hindsight usually seem like an ideal that is either thoughtlessly mimicked or sought for intentionally.

Factoring that with the above example, if your child sees you be the stranger that does something heroic, then that's an added caveat to your example. I've seen people upset with their partner for doing something they saw as "risky" or "dumb" to be heroic to a stranger, putting their lives at risk to the immediate family member and got scolded for it instead of praised as a hero.

Failure to be seen to be your kids hero is to fail at being a parent. Failure to be a role model. If you don't remember viewing your own parents in that manner indicates poor parenting bordering on abuse or neglect.

[Shell B]

Nothing's more annoying than your classic, good 'ol good samaritan.

I can't tell you how many narcissistic, arrogant "good samaritans" I know.

Oh, god. I'm one of them. 

I once stopped to help a bleeding guy by the side of the road. One of his shoes was in the middle of the street. He had no idea how he got there. People were just driving by him. Really busy road. I still brag about how much better I am than them to this day. (Read: I rant about how fucking douchey it is to drive by a bleeding man missing a shoe.) I still have no idea how he got there. We called for help and even followed up with his girlfriend who also still had no idea later that night.

[Shell B]

Strangely I think I agree with the overall OLB point on heroes. Going above the call of duty. To see a firefighter rush into a building to save 2 kids seems brave and honorable, but not necessarily heroic. To watch a passerby do it, because it's not their "job" seems fittingly heroic.

@Mr Greene -I disagree. Being your kids hero is not "part of the job" of parenting.  I actually agree with OLB that it's the example part that is part of the job description by necessity at the very least. I don't think anything in the quality of that example necessitate heroism as part of the job. Parents have a super amount of influence on a child's formative years and in hindsight usually seem like an ideal that is either thoughtlessly mimicked or sought for intentionally.

Factoring that with the above example, if your child sees you be the stranger that does something heroic, then that's an added caveat to your example. I've seen people upset with their partner for doing something they saw as "risky" or "dumb" to be heroic to a stranger, putting their lives at risk to the immediate family member and got scolded for it instead of praised as a hero.

Failure to be seen to be your kids hero is to fail at being a parent. Failure to be a role model. If you don't remember viewing your own parents in that manner indicates poor parenting bordering on abuse or neglect.

I always loved my mother, but she wasn't my "hero" growing up. She became my hero when I watched her die with more dignity than I've ever mustered in any action in my life. The value of a parent isn't always evident from childhood. Your best lessons may still come later. I know mine did.

[tackattack]

I don't think obligation negates heroism one bit. A firefighter can still turn around and not do his job out of fear. I firefighter still makes a choice to enter a burning building, from the moment he or she signs up. They aren't particularly obligated, and they definitely don't lose their hero status because they might be obligated. A good firefighter is one of the most heroic people on the planet. Put on those clothes and go for a walk in the park and tell me you'd still run into a burning building wearing them.

I'm not saying you can't have a heroic job. I disagree Shell, only in that "doing what you signed up to do" isn't a qualification for heroism. I signed up to be in the military. That doesn't make me heroic, because it BECOMES my status quo when it because my job to do heroic things. Where I think your statement fails is in the fact that they are particularly obligated by signing up for the job. They can still be heroes. I know some cops, firefighters and military. I consider some of them greatly heroic people, but not because they do their job. I consider them heroic for other characteristics like selflessness and honest/trustworthiness, being able to make the hard decision. Others I consider good firefighters, cops and grunts because they do their job well, but not particularly in a heroic fashion.

For Mr. Greene. You answered your own question. "Failure to be seen to be your kids hero is to fail at being a parent. Failure to be a role model" Being a role model is different than being a hero. They are different. In common vernacular we can use them interchangeably, because someone who is a hero is usually considered a good role model. Not all role models are generally heroic, especially when the job of role model is forced by biological and societal dictums. There are many good and bad role model parents. The good ones can be heroes, I just don't think they necessarily have to.