Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 23, 2022, 5:17 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
#11
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
No matter how you polish a turd, it's still just shit at its core.
Reply
#12
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
(March 11, 2020 at 3:37 am)WinterHold Wrote: This verse from the Quran is very well known,


Quote:Sura 2, The Quan:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Taghut = disbelief

The verse can't be clearer: isn't this identical to the secular rule that prevents the enforcing of belief on anybody?

Freedom of belief is guaranteed in Islam under the protection of this verse. The Quran is God's word; so no Muslim has the right to cross it.

To bad it's not Freedom from belief. You should probably stop trying to defend the Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimina..._countries
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




Reply
#13
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
(March 11, 2020 at 9:23 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Meh, the way forward for Islam for now is for them to cherry pick the nice verses out of their scriptures the way most Jews and Christians do theirs. Moderation is a step in the right direction. I wish WinterHold the best when attempting to get other Muslims to agree with him. I'd love to see him discuss this with Kloro.

Actually, the negative sentences are all derived from the Sunni and Shiite Hadith -especially the sentences about apostasy-.

The Quran must be taken as a single book, as a single unit; it's very hard to cherry-pick unless you want to make a mess out of your interpretation. It's not a long book, and it is very very clear and straightforward.

I'll say Muslims need to reject the Hadith and start focusing on the revelation of God (i.e the Quran); but so many of the takers of benefit from the mess of following the Hadith would oppose this.

(March 11, 2020 at 11:38 am)brewer Wrote:
(March 11, 2020 at 3:37 am)WinterHold Wrote: This verse from the Quran is very well known,



Taghut = disbelief

The verse can't be clearer: isn't this identical to the secular rule that prevents the enforcing of belief on anybody?

Freedom of belief is guaranteed in Islam under the protection of this verse. The Quran is God's word; so no Muslim has the right to cross it.

To bad it's not Freedom from belief. You should probably stop trying to defend the Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimina..._countries

The Quran never said that apostasy should be punished with death; ever.
On the other hand, all the wikipedia article provided is the opprisive actions of Muslim governments of today.

There are no verse in the Quran saying that apostasy is punished by death (across its 600 pages).
Reply
#14
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
There are "negative sentences" in magic book too. We can skip the arguments from our different perspectives of good and bad and just allow...for the sake of conversation.....that this content exists. It's existence isn't (and cannot be) disputed, you just think that everyone has those "negative sentences" wrong.

Unless the sunni or the shia literally wrote that shit into magic book - distancing yourself from either sect is irrelevant.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#15
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
(March 11, 2020 at 12:31 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(March 11, 2020 at 9:23 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Meh, the way forward for Islam for now is for them to cherry pick the nice verses out of their scriptures the way most Jews and Christians do theirs. Moderation is a step in the right direction. I wish WinterHold the best when attempting to get other Muslims to agree with him. I'd love to see him discuss this with Kloro.

Actually, the negative sentences are all derived from the Sunni and Shiite Hadith -especially the sentences about apostasy-.

The Quran must be taken as a single book, as a single unit; it's very hard to cherry-pick unless you want to make a mess out of your interpretation. It's not a long book, and it is very very clear and straightforward.

I'll say Muslims need to reject the Hadith and start focusing on the revelation of God (i.e the Quran); but so many of the takers of benefit from the mess of following the Hadith would oppose this.

(March 11, 2020 at 11:38 am)brewer Wrote: To bad it's not Freedom from belief. You should probably stop trying to defend the Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimina..._countries

The Quran never said that apostasy should be punished with death; ever.
On the other hand, all the wikipedia article provided is the opprisive actions of Muslim governments of today.

There are no verse in the Quran saying that apostasy is punished by death (across its 600 pages).

I can’t see that it matters all that much what the Quran has to say about the punishment for apostasy. The brute fact is that the murder of Muslim apostates has been carried out and condoned by Muslims throughout the Islamic world. 

It’s kind of like the murder of ‘witches’ in the West. That the verse ‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live’ is a horrific mistranslation doesn’t absolve Christian churches of the brutal murders of thousands of people over hundreds of years. The responsibility for their murders lies with the actions Christian believers, just as that for the butchery of Muslim apostates rests firmly on the shoulders of Islam.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply
#16
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
(March 11, 2020 at 5:30 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(March 11, 2020 at 5:16 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Thats why jews and christians always were second class citizens in the islamic world?
Thats why they had to pay extra taxes? "You are free to believe whatever you want.....if you can afford it, of course"

Where do you bring your information from ? Disney's Aladin ?

Are you denying that non-muslims had to pay an extra tax in most muslim states until very, very recently?
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
Reply
#17
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
(March 11, 2020 at 12:31 pm)WinterHold Wrote: The Quran never said that apostasy should be punished with death; ever.
On the other hand, all the wikipedia article provided is the opprisive actions of Muslim governments of today.

There are no verse in the Quran saying that apostasy is punished by death (across its 600 pages).

As if the muslims in power ever read your book or uphold/enforce the parts of the book that does not suit their objectives.

When will you learn that religion is about power and manipulation.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




Reply
#18
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
(March 11, 2020 at 1:22 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There are "negative sentences" in magic book too.  We can skip the arguments from our different perspectives of good and bad and just allow...for the sake of conversation.....that this content exists.  It's existence isn't (and cannot be) disputed, you just think that everyone has those "negative sentences" wrong.

Unless the sunni or the shia literally wrote that shit into magic book - distancing yourself from either sect is irrelevant.

The existence of sentences that "you personally" see as "bad" is quite a moot point because it's a subjective matter.

What I suggest though is treating the Quran as the objective source; or in other words: the base case.

(March 11, 2020 at 1:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(March 11, 2020 at 12:31 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Actually, the negative sentences are all derived from the Sunni and Shiite Hadith -especially the sentences about apostasy-.

The Quran must be taken as a single book, as a single unit; it's very hard to cherry-pick unless you want to make a mess out of your interpretation. It's not a long book, and it is very very clear and straightforward.

I'll say Muslims need to reject the Hadith and start focusing on the revelation of God (i.e the Quran); but so many of the takers of benefit from the mess of following the Hadith would oppose this.


The Quran never said that apostasy should be punished with death; ever.
On the other hand, all the wikipedia article provided is the opprisive actions of Muslim governments of today.

There are no verse in the Quran saying that apostasy is punished by death (across its 600 pages).

I can’t see that it matters all that much what the Quran has to say about the punishment for apostasy.

It matters because this book -the Quran- is admitted by all Muslims to be God's word. So if somebody used a sentence not mentioned in it, then they are literally ignoring what God said or remained silent about.

(March 11, 2020 at 1:36 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
(March 11, 2020 at 5:30 am)WinterHold Wrote: Where do you bring your information from ? Disney's Aladin ?

Are you denying that non-muslims had to pay an extra tax in most muslim states until very, very recently?

I don't care about Islamic country's or their institutions.
I care about what God himself said in this regard.

(March 11, 2020 at 2:17 pm)brewer Wrote:
(March 11, 2020 at 12:31 pm)WinterHold Wrote: The Quran never said that apostasy should be punished with death; ever.
On the other hand, all the wikipedia article provided is the opprisive actions of Muslim governments of today.

There are no verse in the Quran saying that apostasy is punished by death (across its 600 pages).

As if the muslims in power ever read your book or uphold/enforce the parts of the book that does not suit their objectives.

When will you learn that religion is about power and manipulation.

Indeed so many of them ignored the book and even twisted its meaning via the Hadith; until reaching the conclusion we see today of all their countries falling to be "third world countries".
Reply
#19
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
A person who's engaged in fixing magic book complaining about subjective matters? Quick, tell another one!

I want to point out that your effort and response demonstrates that you know the shit content exists. You flat out lied with the sunni/shia song and dance and you knew you were lying when you did it. What does allah think about that, objectively? What does it mean when you're still doing it to another person in the same post, even as you acknowledge the lie in conversation with me?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#20
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: There shall be no compulsion in the acceptance of religion
(March 12, 2020 at 2:32 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(March 11, 2020 at 1:36 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Are you denying that non-muslims had to pay an extra tax in most muslim states until very, very recently?

I don't care about Islamic country's or their institutions.
I care about what God himself said in this regard.

You tried to call me stupid for asking about what really happened, in islam, for most of the time.
(March 11, 2020 at 5:30 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(March 11, 2020 at 5:16 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Thats why jews and christians always were second class citizens in the islamic world?
Thats why they had to pay extra taxes? "You are free to believe whatever you want.....if you can afford it, of course"
Where do you bring your information from ? Disney's Aladin ?
Do you deny that extra taxes were levied?

Your answer: "I dont care"
You pretty much know the answer to my question do you? You just refuse to talk about the topic, because it makes you look ignorant and dishonest. Yet you have been exposed as a liar already, since it is true that an extra tax existed, and i was correct in claiming it existed. So, no Disneys Aladdin, rather you being engaged in copying Pinocchio.

You insisting on "what god said" and refusal to engage in me presenting facts about islam, that speaks for itself, and your pathetic personality.
I will spare you the verses where your god indeed asked to levy a tax from jewss and christians, since you most probably know them already and will just continue to flat out lie, and i neither have the time nor will to waste too much efforts on such an repugnant liar as you.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III WinterHold 71 1583 May 8, 2022 at 3:33 pm
Last Post: JairCrawford
  [Quranic Reflection]: Quran vs Hadith- why the Hadith is false WinterHold 176 3463 January 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part II WinterHold 38 818 December 21, 2021 at 1:30 am
Last Post: Anomalocaris
  [Quranic Reflection]: God is the light of the universe. WinterHold 35 1780 September 12, 2021 at 11:52 am
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj. WinterHold 99 7307 August 2, 2021 at 2:21 pm
Last Post: Nomad
  [Quranic Reflection]: On reading the Quran.. WinterHold 1 322 July 24, 2021 at 5:23 pm
Last Post: onlinebiker
  [Quranic Reflection]: Anthropomorphism and God in Islam WinterHold 15 775 June 16, 2021 at 2:30 pm
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  [Quranic Reflection]: The Romans destroying of the Jewish temple, would it happen? WinterHold 15 509 May 12, 2021 at 4:54 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  [Quranic Reflection]: is being closed minded the cause of disbelief ? WinterHold 26 1031 February 4, 2021 at 8:48 am
Last Post: Ten
  [Quranic Reflection]: moon absorbed by the sun in the Quran: far future. WinterHold 253 5297 December 18, 2020 at 9:25 pm
Last Post: polymath257



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)