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Big gods came after the rise of civilizations
#21
RE: Big gods came after the rise of civilizations
(April 8, 2020 at 12:13 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Again, while the distinction may make sense in other contexts, it doesn't in anthropological studies.  Distribution as we employ it is also a ritual.  Food production and distribution, in particular, ritualizes the entire cosmos around us, not just our daily lives.  Not just in-tot but down to the individual unit.

Farm chores, for example...-rituals.

Quote:In anthropology, rituals are actions with intentional symbolic meaning undertaken for a specific cultural purpose

Agriculture & trade for symbolic reasons?
Does this definition of 'ritual' include unblocking the toilet?
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
-Esquilax

Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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#22
RE: Big gods came after the rise of civilizations
If we organized our lives around it in the manner described - yes.

Consider the agrarian basis of our holidays and their attendant calendar.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#23
RE: Big gods came after the rise of civilizations
(April 9, 2020 at 9:42 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If we organized our lives around it in the manner described - yes.  

Consider the agrarian basis of our holidays and their attendant calendar.

Whilst that may be the case with our present civilization (farmers produce excess food to gain symbolic food [money]) I'm not sure that it would apply to the neolithic/early bronze age when civilization developed.

Thinking about that the earliest form of a treasury was the tribal granary to provide food when times were tough, something that might be relevant currently...
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
-Esquilax

Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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#24
RE: Big gods came after the rise of civilizations
We've been fully modern for 55k years, at least. We know that neolithic and bronze age people employed ritual behavior as a part of their practical everyday tasks. Their rituals were very neatly constructed along the lines of necessity. In many cases, ritual behavior has a clear relationship to enhanced productivity.

The practical utility of ritual behavior is a known known.

While there's some crossover between money and ritual, and a granary makes for a good example of a treasury (people payed their taxes in food for a long time).... a ritual behavior in the sense employed would be more like doing something every day with the explicit intent of it getting you more money - regardless of whether that thing has a causal effect. If we add money (or any currency, really) to the mix it becomes easier to see how ritual behaviors formed, in past and today.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

This, conveniently, is and has always been the traditionalism that moralizing gods* were founded upon and continue to make reference to. Proceeding from there we need only add reciprocity, a ubiquitous belief in human beings about pretty much all things - and we get to highly ritualized behaviors that are more like ceremonies. Everyone standing around a specific well as a priest drops a coin into it - on the expectation that this "seed money" will grow. That the divine will return and even multiply our efforts. Ultimately, any society that can compel it's members to such regimented behavior will find equal success in the more practical aspects of ritual behavior, at the level of the group and the individual - and the continued success of their society will seem to be a powerful indication of the efficacy of ritual and ceremony - repeat ad infinitum.

*I use the term for convenience, I don't think that there is such a thing as a non moralizing god, also noted by the author of the paper as a potential issue for the hypothesis
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#25
RE: Big gods came after the rise of civilizations
Some interesting suppositions here.
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