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War According To The Qur'an
#11
RE: War According To The Qur'an
I hope there's red light flashing on somebody's panel right now.
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#12
RE: War According To The Qur'an
(April 9, 2020 at 4:14 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I hope there's red light flashing on somebody's panel right now.

There's a "target acquired" message flashing on my panel right now.
Dying to live, living to die.
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#13
RE: War According To The Qur'an
(April 9, 2020 at 8:06 am)KuranMumini19 Wrote: many in the Quran there are verses about war.

What does it have to say on immunology? Space flight? Magnetoplasmadynamics?

Perhaps if you stopped reading books of mythology and started thinking about your moral system you might be able to stop killing each other quite so much.
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#14
RE: War According To The Qur'an
People of faith seem to think we spend all day thinking about their religion of choice.
Personally I don't think anything about the Koran except that as it appeals to the supernatural it is wrong.

The koran says "this and not the thing you think" they say.

I think its got a flying horse in it and that's enough for me to call bullshit.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#15
RE: War According To The Qur'an
Well, when it comes to Quran and war maybe we could discuss the use of Quran by notorious jihadis to wage war on non-muslims?

For instance, back in 2009 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and few other Muslims, who were accused of helping plot the 9/11 attacks, wrote that letter "Islamic Response to the Government’s Nine Accusations" where they quoted the Quran to justify their jihad war against the American Infidels. link
In it they wrote
Quote:In God's book, he ordered us to fight you everywhere we find you, even if you were inside the holiest of all holy cities, The Mosque in Mecca, and the holy city of Mecca, and even during sacred months.
In God's book, verse 9, AI-Tawbah: (("then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, and besiege them and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush,))


Osama bin Laden also regularly quoted Quran like in the notorious "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places" from 1996 he quotes seven Koran verses: 3:145; 47:4–6; 2:154; 9:14; 47:19; 8:72; and the notorious "Verse of the Sword," 9:5. Source

And in 2002 in bin Laden's letter to American People began with two Koran quotations: "Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" (22:39); and "Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah, e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan" (4:76).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/n...heobserver


Or I remember in 2006 when a gang of Muslims in Paris kidnapped Ilan Halimi, a 23-year-old Jew, who was tortured and murdered with his captors demanding half a million euros in ransom money and reciting verses of the Koran.
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340...90,00.html


We can discuss more cases.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#16
RE: War According To The Qur'an
The religion of pieces.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#17
RE: War According To The Qur'an
(April 20, 2020 at 12:16 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: We can discuss more cases.
Let's meet on top of Tower One of the World Trade Center and chat about this.
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#18
RE: War According To The Qur'an
(April 20, 2020 at 12:16 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Well, when it comes to Quran and war maybe we could discuss the use of Quran by notorious jihadis to wage war on non-muslims?

In what sense Bin Laden can be called a jihadi? WTF are you talking about.. he is a senseless murderer, that's it. Why add the jihadi label.

(April 20, 2020 at 12:16 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:
Quote:In God's book, he ordered us to fight you everywhere we find you, even if you were inside the holiest of all holy cities, The Mosque in Mecca, and the holy city of Mecca, and even during sacred months.
In God's book, verse 9, AI-Tawbah: (("then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, and besiege them and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush,))

These are all out of context quotes, it's like zooming on the picture of one dead soldier in a battle then claim all earth is filled with blood and corpses. The Qur'an only authorizes attacking first in the case of preemptive war, that is, if there is incontrovertible evidence an enemy attack is imminent. Also, the equivalent in Arabic of "fight" in the Qur'an is qatala', which literally means offensive action from both sides. Murdering innocents just doesn't exist anywhere in reliable literature.

Other fact: any individual is explicitly forbidden to go to jihad if his parents don't allow him to. Now think about how many cases you heard of, about people fleeing their families to some ME country, thinking they are the most fervent Muslims.....
Qur'anic revelation is the sole path to ultimate reality. All argumentation and philosophy is an expression of arrogance and an overestimation of human cognitive ability. 

"But believe me, Cleanthes, the most natural feeling that a well-disposed mind will have on this occasion is a longing desire and expectation that God will be pleased to remove or at least to lessen this profound ignorance, by giving mankind some particular revelation, revealing the nature, attributes, and operations of the divine object of our faith." (Hume's Dialogues)


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#19
RE: War According To The Qur'an
(April 20, 2020 at 4:20 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(April 20, 2020 at 12:16 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Well, when it comes to Quran and war maybe we could discuss the use of Quran by notorious jihadis to wage war on non-muslims?

In what sense Bin Laden can be called a jihadi? WTF are you talking about.. he is a senseless murderer, that's it. Why add the jihadi label.



Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
-Esquilax

Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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#20
RE: War According To The Qur'an
(April 20, 2020 at 4:20 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: These are all out of context quotes, it's like zooming on the picture of one dead soldier in a battle then claim all earth is filled with blood and corpses. The Qur'an only authorizes attacking first in the case of preemptive war, that is, if there is incontrovertible evidence an enemy attack is imminent. Also, the equivalent in Arabic of "fight" in the Qur'an is qatala', which literally means offensive action from both sides. Murdering innocents just doesn't exist anywhere in reliable literature.

I am more talking about how Muslims see Koran and that there are violent Islamic groups that cite Koran to justify violent acts. At the same time there are no religious violent groups that cite Book of Mormons or even the Bible, but it only seems that Koran has that feature.

Or take prominent Muslim, Ayatollah Khomeini, who said:
Quote:The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur'anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_...h_Khomeini
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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