How literally should we take the Qur'an ?

[momo666]

I am finding myself in a bit of a maze when trying to "prove" the inaccurate statements in the Quran. You often hear Muslims claim how their book contains scientific knowledge that could not have possibly been discovered in that age, ergo some superior intelligence must have dictated it.

The problem when dealing with this issue often is the constant argument that the translation is simply not good enough. English simply cannot encompass the complexity of the Arabic language. Some words have multiple meanings and therefore a certain verse can mean a lot of things. Added to that, is the ever lasting argument of "you are taking it too literally". That verse does not mean that literally, it is merely a poetic expression to show a truth.

You will often hear how some verse that is false when read literally, when read in a poetic way it can express a truth. For example, the Quran does not say that the Earth was created before the stars(2:29); it doesn't even mention stars in that verse. The word for "heavens" can also mean "above" so what this poetic verse tells us is that the Earth's atmosphere was created after the Earth formation. You see how there is no contradiction but correct information when you look at it that way ?
Forgive me if the argument is misrepresented, I cannot remember how it goes exactly but as far as I remember, I heard some such defense.

Are there any of our peers dealing with this subject or Islam in particular ? I remember seeing Aron Ra having a brief exchange with that Hamza guy but other than that, not much. Maybe I have not looked enough ?

[brewer]

Welcome momo!

I'm not your guy. You'll need someone more versed in the Quran. 

I will say that no matter what the text, it was written by man with the knowledge men knew at that time, not a god, not inspired by a god. And now, man is twisting the text to fit what is known present day. Do you think that 1000 years ago they were proclaiming the earth-stars-atmosphere adaptation that you hear today? Doubtful. If they had, more than likely they would have lost their heads. There was a different interpretation 1000 years ago for the same text. The rationalizations and justifications that theists will make is mind boggling. 

You should probably take the Quran as literally as a Superman comic. Superman and a god have a lot of common attributes, except for the killing.  

See you in an intro thread?

Woof.

[ignoramus]

Weird how the innerant word of god is and should be translated only on a personal level.
Which explains why Muslims can't agree on one flavour of god.

So much for absolute truth!

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Welcome matey...

[c172]

http://atheistforums.org/forum-11.html

Welcome, stranger! Indeed, go to this link and introduce yourself!

[Fireball]

I'd take the koran with the same amount of acceptance as the buybull, which is zero. As has been mentioned, both were written by men, many years ago. All the word twisting and apologetics the faithful bring to bear only underscores the ridiculousness of their claims.

[Jesster]

I take all religious books about as literally and as seriously as the story of Peter Pan. I may have been religious when I was younger, but I grew out of both that and my wish to fly with fairy dust eventually.

[paulpablo]

It's an impossible challenge. 

The problems you'll encounter if you accept the challenge are the following.

1) Not even Muslims who speak Arabic know what the quran is talking about.  According to Muslims the quran predicts evolution, and different Muslims say the quran refutes evolution. 

2) This is related to point 1, most people who argue against the quran can't speak Arabic so are at a disadvantage anyway.  The people who can speak Arabic can't agree on the minute details of the quran anyway.

3) There's so many illogical miracle claims and claims about what the quran is talking about, I'm sure new ones have probably been thought up since I last took an interest in debating Islam.

4) No one will listen to you anyway because when someone wants to believe they won't stop just because you've pointed out some little petty contradiction.

5) Abrogation means that even if there's a crystal clear contradiction then it was done on purpose by Muhammad.  Some verses do contradict others but it's fine because it's in time order or something.  This is just going off the top of my head from when I wasted about a year debating Islam.  (I did learn a lot about evolution and other topics though in the process of all this arguing so it wasn't all a waste I suppose.)

[Nay_Sayer]

About as seriously as you'd take the task of finding waldo in one of his books.

[robvalue]

Welcome to the forum

If I need anyone's help to understand what a book from God is trying to tell me, then God has failed. He should really be able to do better. It should be instantly apparent to me how literal any part of it is supposed to be. And I should also be able to read the fucking thing without having it translated, so that it apparently loses some meaning. God should be able to write in a universal language or something. Or just beam the meaning right into my head, whatever.

If God needs the help of all these pinkos, running around telling us how awesome his book is, he's really not as powerful as people claim. All they are doing is trying to make themselves feel better about their belief. It would be a particularly stupid and vulnerable person who actually converted on the strength of this nonsense.

[pocaracas]

What does god need with a book?
What does god need with a spokesperson?
What does god need with an interpreter for that book?

Is god incompetent?
Is god unwilling to help mankind in following his desires?
Is god simply not there and all this book writing, book interpreting, book following is an excuse for the human brain's faulty ability to accept as true an irrefutable statement repeatedly relayed by a trustworthy person, during childhood?

Also, it is known that one of the persons who helped with the writing of the Quran was a doctor...and much of the info therein was already available on Indian textbooks.