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Islam
#11
RE: Islam
(May 16, 2020 at 8:23 pm)WinterHold Wrote: In this topic, I try to picture an image of a world where Islam rules with the Quran as its constitution.
Let's begin.
===============================================================

::God:

AKA Allah,الله, he is the creator of this universe. Gender is not applied to him; but we use "he" to refer to him for linguistic reasons alone. He is a "creator"; so that's what he does: create. Just like heaven and earth are accepted facts, God is also an accepted fact. He is the first and the last, infinite and supreme.

::Mankind:

God created mankind and gave them minds so they know him. Because that's what he does: create.

::What if Islam ruled the globe?

1-The poor:

The poor must be given despite what they did, as the constitution -the Quran- orders:


Quote:Sura 76, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 8 )   And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,
( 9 )   [Saying], "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah. We wish not from you reward or gratitude.
( 10 )   Indeed, We fear from our Lord a Day austere and distressful."

2-The criminals:

Crime is not tolerated and punished according to the constitution of that world, the crimes punished are many, including:

 -Having sex without an official contract. It is a crime because sex can produce children and contracts        are essential to keep their rights.
 
 -Murder is punished by killing the killer, such dangerous activity has no place in the world of Islam

 -Robbery is punished by cutting the hand of the thieve.

 -------------------

Is that what Islam is. I've never considered myself anti-Islam until now.

Thanks for the heads up.

Islam is evil, got it.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#12
RE: Islam
(May 16, 2020 at 8:23 pm)WinterHold Wrote: In this topic, I try to picture an image of a world where Islam rules with the Quran as its constitution.
Let's begin.
===============================================================

::God:

AKA Allah,الله, he is the creator of this universe. Gender is not applied to him; but we use "he" to refer to him for linguistic reasons alone. He is a "creator"; so that's what he does: create. Just like heaven and earth are accepted facts, God is also an accepted fact. He is the first and the last, infinite and supreme.

::Mankind:

God created mankind and gave them minds so they know him. Because that's what he does: create.

::What if Islam ruled the globe?

1-The poor:

The poor must be given despite what they did, as the constitution -the Quran- orders:


Quote:Sura 76, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 8 )   And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,
( 9 )   [Saying], "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah. We wish not from you reward or gratitude.
( 10 )   Indeed, We fear from our Lord a Day austere and distressful."

2-The criminals:

Crime is not tolerated and punished according to the constitution of that world, the crimes punished are many, including:

 -Having sex without an official contract. It is a crime because sex can produce children and contracts        are essential to keep their rights.
 
 -Murder is punished by killing the killer, such dangerous activity has no place in the world of Islam

 -Robbery is punished by cutting the hand of the thieve.

 -------------------

Based strictly on what you've said there should be a lot of small children with missing hands.

Keep this up and there might be a lobotomy in your future.

Reply
#13
RE: Islam
(May 16, 2020 at 8:23 pm)WinterHold Wrote: In this topic, I try to picture an image of a world where Islam rules with the Quran as its constitution.
Let's begin.
===============================================================

::God:

AKA Allah,الله, he is the creator of this universe. Gender is not applied to him; but we use "he" to refer to him for linguistic reasons alone. He is a "creator"; so that's what he does: create. Just like heaven and earth are accepted facts, God is also an accepted fact. He is the first and the last, infinite and supreme.

::Mankind:

God created mankind and gave them minds so they know him. Because that's what he does: create.

::What if Islam ruled the globe?

1-The poor:

The poor must be given despite what they did, as the constitution -the Quran- orders:


Quote:Sura 76, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 8 )   And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,
( 9 )   [Saying], "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah. We wish not from you reward or gratitude.
( 10 )   Indeed, We fear from our Lord a Day austere and distressful."

2-The criminals:

Crime is not tolerated and punished according to the constitution of that world, the crimes punished are many, including:

 -Having sex without an official contract. It is a crime because sex can produce children and contracts        are essential to keep their rights.
 
 -Murder is punished by killing the killer, such dangerous activity has no place in the world of Islam

 -Robbery is punished by cutting the hand of the thieve.

 -------------------

That would be a nightmare no matter how one approaches it. There is simply no way to prevent such a scenario from being an utterly miserable place to live.
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#14
RE: Islam
Miserable people need a miserable religion.
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#15
RE: Islam
(May 17, 2020 at 9:30 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Miserable people need a miserable religion.

I wonder if that's a chicken or the egg kind of thing.   hmmm...
       I am the storm.                                                             
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#16
RE: Islam
(May 16, 2020 at 8:52 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Yeah, that’s probably not the best way to dispel the notion that Islam is a savage, ignorant religion. 

Let’s talk about thievery. Suppose you have a desperately ill child and the only hope for it is to steal the medicine. You do so, are found out, and your hand is cut off. Does stealing to save the life merit that punishment?

Boru

To approve a punishment, the condemned needs to satisfy the age and the mental capability to realize their crime.
A child is not mentally capable of realizing the consequence of their actions.


Second, committing thievery or other crimes because one is "forced to do it" removes the punishment, and the examples are many from the Quran:

Quote:Sura 5, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 3 )   Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

I hope that answers your question.

(May 16, 2020 at 9:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(May 16, 2020 at 8:59 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: And even if it didn't mutilating someone for such a crime is barbaric

And even if it didn't. Mutilating someone for such a crime is barbaric

Agreed, I’m just pointing out that not all crimes are created equal, and that a blanket punishment for a given crime can never be just.

As another example, suppose I steal your car for no other reason than it’s a really cool car and I really want it. On the other hand, suppose I steal a packet of pencils from a local shop just because I want some pencils.

Both of these are theft, but to claim (as Winterhold seems to be doing) that they merit exactly the same punishment is purely stupid.

Makes me glad I’m not a Muslim.

Boru

If you are "forced to do it" then the long verse from Sura 5 Verse 3 does excuse you from the punishment.

But if you are not forced, then the punishment does engulf you; even if for the pencils -unless the pencil's owner forgives you-:

Quote:Sura 42, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 40 )   And the retribution for an evil act is an evil one like it, but whoever pardons and makes reconciliation - his reward is [due] from Allah. Indeed, He does not like wrongdoers.


Forgiveness is encouraged; even.

(May 16, 2020 at 9:15 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(May 16, 2020 at 8:23 pm)WinterHold Wrote: In this topic, I try to picture an image of a world where Islam rules with the Quran as its constitution.
Let's begin.
===============================================================

::God:

AKA Allah,الله, he is the creator of this universe. Gender is not applied to him; but we use "he" to refer to him for linguistic reasons alone. He is a "creator"; so that's what he does: create. Just like heaven and earth are accepted facts, God is also an accepted fact. He is the first and the last, infinite and supreme.

::Mankind:

God created mankind and gave them minds so they know him. Because that's what he does: create.

::What if Islam ruled the globe?

1-The poor:

The poor must be given despite what they did, as the constitution -the Quran- orders:



2-The criminals:

Crime is not tolerated and punished according to the constitution of that world, the crimes punished are many, including:

 -Having sex without an official contract. It is a crime because sex can produce children and contracts        are essential to keep their rights.
 
 -Murder is punished by killing the killer, such dangerous activity has no place in the world of Islam

 -Robbery is punished by cutting the hand of the thieve.

 -------------------

What if humans "rule" by accepting we are all humans and labels don't rule?

Impossible. You will always have a "Hitler" or a United States army firing "democracy" from tanks.

(May 17, 2020 at 8:22 am)brewer Wrote: Based strictly on what you've said there should be a lot of small children with missing hands.

Keep this up and there might be a lobotomy in your future.

This comment; brewer. I'm not crazy:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-61009-p...pid1976065
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#17
RE: Islam
I have to say, you don't make Islamic rule sound very appealing; and clearly most Islamic Republics manage to not be this harsh.

Side note: If you jail someone mistakenly you can let them out; if you cut off someone's hand mistakenly, you can't restore it and if you kill someone mistakenly you can't bring them back.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#18
RE: Islam
(May 18, 2020 at 9:34 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(May 17, 2020 at 8:22 am)brewer Wrote: Based strictly on what you've said there should be a lot of small children with missing hands.

Keep this up and there might be a lobotomy in your future.

This comment; brewer. I'm not crazy:

Quote:Robbery is punished by cutting the hand of the thieve

So you're OK with cutting the hands off children (who often take what is not theirs). Got it.

Reply
#19
RE: Islam
What with all the contradictions (abrogation) and obsolete (due to the passage of 1.5 millennia since it was written) references in the Koran I'd imagine that any society that took it as "the law" would be in a terminal state of indecisive legislative paralysis.
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#20
RE: Islam
(May 18, 2020 at 9:34 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(May 16, 2020 at 8:52 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Yeah, that’s probably not the best way to dispel the notion that Islam is a savage, ignorant religion. 

Let’s talk about thievery. Suppose you have a desperately ill child and the only hope for it is to steal the medicine. You do so, are found out, and your hand is cut off. Does stealing to save the life merit that punishment?

Boru

To approve a punishment, the condemned needs to satisfy the age and the mental capability to realize their crime.
A child is not mentally capable of realizing the consequence of their actions.


Second, committing thievery or other crimes because one is "forced to do it" removes the punishment, and the examples are many from the Quran:

Quote:Sura 5, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 3 )   Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

I hope that answers your question.

(May 16, 2020 at 9:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Agreed, I’m just pointing out that not all crimes are created equal, and that a blanket punishment for a given crime can never be just.

As another example, suppose I steal your car for no other reason than it’s a really cool car and I really want it. On the other hand, suppose I steal a packet of pencils from a local shop just because I want some pencils.

Both of these are theft, but to claim (as Winterhold seems to be doing) that they merit exactly the same punishment is purely stupid.

Makes me glad I’m not a Muslim.

Boru

If you are "forced to do it" then the long verse from Sura 5 Verse 3 does excuse you from the punishment.

But if you are not forced, then the punishment does engulf you; even if for the pencils -unless the pencil's owner forgives you-:

Quote:Sura 42, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 40 )   And the retribution for an evil act is an evil one like it, but whoever pardons and makes reconciliation - his reward is [due] from Allah. Indeed, He does not like wrongdoers.


Forgiveness is encouraged; even.

(May 16, 2020 at 9:15 pm)Brian37 Wrote: What if humans "rule" by accepting we are all humans and labels don't rule?

Impossible. You will always have a "Hitler" or a United States army firing "democracy" from tanks.

(May 17, 2020 at 8:22 am)brewer Wrote: Based strictly on what you've said there should be a lot of small children with missing hands.

Keep this up and there might be a lobotomy in your future.

This comment; brewer. I'm not crazy:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-61009-p...pid1976065
Mutilating someone as a punishment is never justified . And your opinions on rule are complete nonesense

Quote:Impossible. You will always have a "Hitler" or a United States army firing "democracy" from tanks.
No you won't and we need to be "ruled " we got rid of that bullshit a century ago .
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”
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