Maybe it is time for an update?

[John 6IX Breezy]

This is not lost on me, but if times change, and they do, updating matters.

How many people today go up to a random black person and call them "Negro"  much less the more offensive "N"word.

I agree; but I personally would be less critical of an elderly person that uses the term Negro, because that was the appropriate word to use not too long ago and people tend to just stick with what they know. Martin Luther King Jr. used Negro in many of his speeches and I don't believe he used it as a racial slur. Today we're going through a similar transition where Black is the appropriate term, and African American seems outdated. This is happening even though Jesse Jackson (if I'm not mistaken) was the one who popularized the term African American.

Change is fine. But given that many of these changes happen arbitrarily, I think its important to be less critical of individuals who haven't changed.

[Brian37]

I qualify, just barely, for a card.  Don't want or need it.  The card should designate by tribe or nation.  "Indian" is a confusing term.

In reality, you cant logically blame Columbus for his mistake. But at the same time, he also set in motion genocide and the invasion of white Europeans taking over Native land and stealing it.

So at least to me, it is reasonable to not confuse his mistake of "Indian" meaning "I am a fucking dumbass who thought I reached India" and forget about the fact he set in motion genocide. 

I cant forget about the fact he set genocide in motion. So it should be understandable why Native Americans would have a problem with the use of the word "Indian" just like blacks have a problem with the use of the word "N*gger" or even "N*gro". And also why as a lifetime Washington NFL fan, I am not married to to the current team name now.

[Ranjr]

In reality, you cant logically blame Columbus for his mistake. But at the same time, he also set in motion genocide and the invasion of white Europeans taking over Native land and stealing it.

So at least to me, it is reasonable to not confuse his mistake of "Indian" meaning "I am a fucking dumbass who thought I reached India" and forget about the fact he set in motion genocide. 

I cant forget about the fact he set genocide in motion. So it should be understandable why Native Americans would have a problem with the use of the word "Indian" just like blacks have a problem with the use of the word "N*gger" or even "N*gro". And also why as a lifetime Washington NFL fan, I am not married to to the current team name now.

That's an amusing part of your thread title.  The term should have been corrected within 50 years, given the work of Vespucci, de Leon, Cortez and so on.  They learned the names of the tribes and nations before they killed and stole from them.  

I imagine there are "rename the Redskins" threads all over the place.  My serious pick would be the Mohican.  My semi-serious pick would be the Generals.  I really want to see the Washington Redcoats.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It is important to keep in mind that languages have tides; and the meaning of words change arbitrarily from time to time. Perhaps it is outdated to say Indian, but there will certainly come a day when saying Native American will sound just as backwards. My guess is that this will happen either because the phrase overgeneralizes a diversity of people that spanned two continents, or because the term American is an anachronistic label given by Europeans to a land which was not formerly known as America.

My point is this, although I do think its important to keep up with trends and politically correct terms, I don't think those that are stuck with the outdated phrases should be looked down upon. Words naturally undergo pejoration, and it is often the newer generations that change the rules while the older generation goes on using what they thought was inoffensive growing up--like Native American today.

This is not lost on me, but if times change, and they do, updating matters.

How many people today go up to a random black person and call them "Negro"  much less the more offensive "N"word.

My friend gets that the word "Indian" for its time was not always meant as a racial slur. But just like it is unfortunately still true today, even in Australia you have people thinking Aboriginals are "lazy". 

It is also true that "gay" started out as a word meaning "happy" only. But it got turned into a homophobic slur, while todays gays use it as a term for acceptance and inclusion. But nobody would accept that same word being used today to mean homophobia. "F*ggot" in England meant a smoke. Nobody sane today uses that word in America to describe gays.



I don't see the term "Indian" or even "Redskin" having any saving grace.

---

By all means, do so. I thought we were discussing terms for indigenous people. Didn’t realize I was going to be treated to one of your Australia anecdotes.

Boru

If one is going to claim they care, it makes  no logical sense to make a statement to imply that you do not care.

Please tell me what the lady Aboriginal artist did to deserve a bullshit blanket statement by our host claiming she was lazy by proxy of label and for being indigenous? I don't see that as any different than American history where whites blame blacks for urban problems.

As far as I know, she did nothing to deserve it. No group deserves to be painted with so broad a brush.

Boru

[arewethereyet]

Sigh...

I paid for his trip. Repeated not as often as "my late mother" and "save me from a hurricane" but more useless filler for most posts.

SSDD

---

I’ve read that there’s a move to reclassify all such peoples as ‘aborigines’, with appropriate modifiers (Australian aborigine, American aborigine, etc). While more technically correct than ‘Native American’, I don’t see it catching on.

Boru

 I have been razing my friend today for pointing this language out, trust me, he was laughing. It is the same reaction I get when I admit that Washington's NFL team needs to go. 

raze
[rāz]


VERB
razing (present participle)

1. completely destroy (a building, town, or other site).
   

How does John, the guy whose trip to Australia you paid for, feel about being completely destroyed?

[Cecelia]

Rewriting history again?


Columbis did NOT think he had landed in India.

In 1492 the country now known as India was named Hindustan.

The term Indian comes from his description of the indiginees as "en dios" - in god....


If you are gonna bitch about history - get the story right.

This is a myth.  Many people, long before Columbus, referred to people of the Indian Subcontinent as Indians.  Columbus long thought he had reached the Indies, and to his dying day thought he had gotten close to China.  There's no evidence to suggest that the 'en dios' theory is correct.  There's a reason they call it the West Indies, you know.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Rewriting history again?


Columbis did NOT think he had landed in India.

In 1492 the country now known as India was named Hindustan.

The term Indian comes from his description of the indiginees as "en dios" - in god....


If you are gonna bitch about history - get the story right.

This is a myth.  Many people, long before Columbus, referred to people of the Indian Subcontinent as Indians.  Columbus long thought he had reached the Indies, and to his dying day thought he had gotten close to China.  There's no evidence to suggest that the 'en dios' theory is correct.  There's a reason they call it the West Indies, you know.

^So much this. 

The name ‘India’ comes from the Indus River, And was used as far back as classical Greece and Rome. ‘Hindustan’ is an exclusively Persian name. Everyone in Europe in Columbus’ day referred to India as ‘India’ (when they took the trouble to refer to it at all, that is).

‘En dios’ doesn’t appear in any of Columbus’ written works. He thought he was in India.

Boru

[Little lunch]

I wish you would all make up your mind.
We're standing here with a rope around a statue and some of us have to work in the morning. :-)