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Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
#11
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
(July 18, 2020 at 12:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(July 18, 2020 at 12:44 pm)Porcupine Wrote: Sudan is making progress, then! At least on those two issues!

Whether alcohol is good or bad it shouldn't be banned. Whether Allah is real or not nobody should be forced to believe.

That’s a silly remark - no one can be ‘forced to believe’ anything. They can be cajoled into believing and they can be forced into acting as if they believe, but belief itself is voluntary.

Boru

You are right. My remark was silly (and technically incorrect). Your refinement to my remark was what I, of course, meant and your correction is superior to my initial remark. I didn't intend to write a falsehood. I stand corrected, and I thank you for that.
"Zen … does not confuse spirituality with thinking about God while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes." - Alan Watts
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#12
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
(July 18, 2020 at 12:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(July 18, 2020 at 12:44 pm)Porcupine Wrote: Sudan is making progress, then! At least on those two issues!

Whether alcohol is good or bad it shouldn't be banned. Whether Allah is real or not nobody should be forced to believe.

That’s a silly remark - no one can be ‘forced to believe’ anything. They can be cajoled into believing and they can be forced into acting as if they believe, but belief itself is voluntary.

Boru

If you put a gun to my head and told me I had to believe in XYZ, I would be able to put on a good show, say the right things, do whatever was required... but... that does not mean I would actually believe. (Only that I believe that I didn't want to get shot)
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

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#13
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
(July 19, 2020 at 4:23 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote:
(July 18, 2020 at 12:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That’s a silly remark - no one can be ‘forced to believe’ anything. They can be cajoled into believing and they can be forced into acting as if they believe, but belief itself is voluntary.

Boru

If you put a gun to my head and told me I had to believe in XYZ, I would be able to put on a good show, say the right things, do whatever was required... but... that does not mean I would actually believe. (Only that I believe that I didn't want to get shot)

I am not sure in that case. If you are an unconvincing liar your brain might actually resort to dissociasting yourself from reality in order to temporarily be able to believe a falsehood in order to survive. Some people's brains might not do that but I certainly think it's possible. It's one why depression can, for some people, lead to psychosis but not for others. Because, for some people, psychosis is a way for the brain to cope with depression. True, there are other forms of psychosis---psychosis that make the depression even worse. But there are certainly some people who lose touch with reality, when depressed, and go into a psychosis that helps them believe falsehoods that make them feel less depressed. I think some extreme episodes of rapid-cycling bipolar can behave this way---where extreme depression can rapidly become extreme delusional mania.
"Zen … does not confuse spirituality with thinking about God while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes." - Alan Watts
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#14
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
(July 12, 2020 at 10:27 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims

After more than 30 years of Islamist rule, Sudan has outlined wide-reaching reforms including allowing non-Muslims to drink alcohol, and scrapping the apostasy law and public flogging.

What happens if Muslims drink alcohol?  If there is true separation of church and state, Muslims shouldn't be punished for it either, right?  Why did they have to say non-Muslims?
theoretically...
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#15
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
Quote:What happens if Muslims drink alcohol?  If there is true separation of church and state, Muslims shouldn't be punished for it either, right?  Why did they have to say non-Muslims?

theoretically.
No one said this was a separation of church and state . Simply a lessening of the draconian Islamist state
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#16
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
(October 8, 2020 at 5:47 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:
Quote:What happens if Muslims drink alcohol?  If there is true separation of church and state, Muslims shouldn't be punished for it either, right?  Why did they have to say non-Muslims?

theoretically.
No one said this was a separation of church and state . Simply a lessening of the draconian Islamist state

You're right - I thought someone mentioned separation of church and state earlier in the thread and got mixed up, I guess.  
So yes, a lessening as you said.  I'll book my tickets and be right over...
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#17
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
(July 18, 2020 at 12:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(July 18, 2020 at 12:44 pm)Porcupine Wrote: Sudan is making progress, then! At least on those two issues!

Whether alcohol is good or bad it shouldn't be banned. Whether Allah is real or not nobody should be forced to believe.

That’s a silly remark - no one can be ‘forced to believe’ anything. They can be cajoled into believing and they can be forced into acting as if they believe, but belief itself is voluntary.

Boru

Actually, I don't think religious rulers care if people actually believe -- only that they don't air their disbelief publicly.  This keeps the religious higherarchy safely in power.

The same for supporting the government -- you can hate it, but as long as you can't say so, there will never be a movement to overthrow it.
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#18
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
(July 13, 2020 at 12:31 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(July 13, 2020 at 10:11 am)WinterHold Wrote: I want to refer to the gullibility of people who consider this crap an evidence of "progression". Sudan has tons over tons of problems that include wars, tribal wars and even a civil war, water problems -as I showed in the previous post-, and etc, so talking about an alcohol law does seem like nothing more than an attempt to milk the western public opinion. I mean feed your people first and stop the civil/tribal wars.

So any person buying this is either ignorant concerning politics and the state of Sudan, or plain simply gullible.
i.e this is a mere old tactic to milk western public opinion.


Tourism ? I hope the tourists don't get kidnapped first.
You realize that the last time people protested in Sudan they got shot, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_massacre




? so ain't speaking about an alcohol law lame? I mean Sudanese people are getting shot at sight when they protest !

Starvation, water shortages, attacks on protestors, wars and tourist kidnappings have NOTHING to do with the OP. 

Stop trolling.

Boru

Ignoring the elephant on the room and cheering for an ant is quite...lame.
It's also quite ignorant and hypocritical.

Get the people to eat first, get them to drink, get them to take every right they deserve, then come speak about religious choice.

(October 9, 2020 at 12:38 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:
(July 18, 2020 at 12:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That’s a silly remark - no one can be ‘forced to believe’ anything. They can be cajoled into believing and they can be forced into acting as if they believe, but belief itself is voluntary.

Boru

Actually, I don't think religious rulers care if people actually believe -- only that they don't air their disbelief publicly.  This keeps the religious higherarchy safely in power.

The same for supporting the government -- you can hate it, but as long as you can't say so, there will never be a movement to overthrow it.

Indeed. Governments that claim to be Islamic or ruling with Islam are in many times so far away from the religion -look at Saudi Arabia for example-, but they claim it because it gives them power. Sometimes it's the only power they use to glue the masses to obey their rule.
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#19
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
Quote:Ignoring the elephant on the room and cheering for an ant is quite...lame.
It's also quite ignorant and hypocritical.

Get the people to eat first, get them to drink, get them to take every right they deserve, then come speak about religious choice
None of that has to do with anything
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#20
RE: Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims
Y'know, WinterHold, you could always start a thread on Sudan's other problems if that's what you really want to talk about, instead of repeatedly trying to hijack this one....
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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