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Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
#21
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
(July 22, 2020 at 7:57 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(July 22, 2020 at 7:53 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You’re a very bright fellow - you know as well as anyone that their script never changes. In fact, I’d be willing to bet money that we’re rocketing to Pascal’s Wager.

Boru
You're wagering on Pascal's Wager? "Ouroboros Arguments" for $50, please.

It’s like raising the bet in poker - wagering on a wager. Happens a lot.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#22
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
(July 22, 2020 at 7:50 am)polymath257 Wrote:
(July 22, 2020 at 7:47 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: I was wondering why we bother to be good, if we'll all just end up in the same boat in the end. I could be completely horrid to people and not suffer 'eternal damnation'.

Being horrible to people isn't beneficial in the long run: people will not trust you, not help you, and fight against you. Your life will be worse off than if you are nice and good to people.

We are *social* creatures. No one can live solely on their own. it helps to have other people to help. And to get that, you have to help others.

It always scares me when a theist asks questions like this. Is the only reason they aren't 'horrible' because they are afraid of hell or wanting heaven? Really? How fundamentally immoral can you be?

Wait, don't answer that.

I would like to know the answer to that myself. I'm not a bad person, I don't do bad things (beside's the white lie here and there which i'm not proud of). My statements may sound cruel but they're not my beliefs - i'm not horrid to people, cruelty makes me very sad. In fact I recently read Flowers in the Attic and bawled my eyes out. my sister thought I was crazy. but I cried because I couldn't comprehend such evil. I'm just fascinated by atheism (I'm a psych student). (and when i say fascinated, I don't mean it in a sarcastic or patronizing way. I mean it genuinely) I really want to hear all your thoughts on the subject and i'm reading every message.

(July 22, 2020 at 7:46 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Why do we have to go anywhere?
When we die the machine stops, that's it, I have no fear of death because you can only be either alive or dead, 200 years ago I was not alive - so I must have been dead - didn't hurt at all!
(the process of dying is a different matter, could be nasty and painful, but death itself is nothing to fear)

As for good and evil, I don't see what that has to do with death, being evil to me is doing things that will hurt others, I don't want to be hurt so try not to do things that will hurt anyone else.

Lol that's true. I'm mostly just afraid of the pain of dying.
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#23
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
(July 22, 2020 at 7:57 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(July 22, 2020 at 7:53 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You’re a very bright fellow - you know as well as anyone that their script never changes. In fact, I’d be willing to bet money that we’re rocketing to Pascal’s Wager.

Boru
You're wagering on Pascal's Wager? "Ouroboros Arguments" for $50, please.

50 bucks on some bland ontological argument.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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#24
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
Psychologically, I would be more concerned about the delusional ramifications brought about by thinking religious faith is better for humanity.
[Image: mtfbwyf.jpg]
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#25
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
We don't go anywhere ... we just change form. The mind-matter we are made of may eventually unite into a complex consciousness again in the vast future---just as all organisms came out of mind/matter---and there may be your conscious self once again, even if it takes billions or trillions of years into the future (or much, much, much longer than that), but 'you' will have no memory of it, you will not be human and is it really you? It would be you only in the same way that one of 'your' past lives would be you if there were many universes prior to the big bang, stretching back far further than 11 billion years, but the energy itself that everything is ... still remained. Just in another form---and 'you' already were some sort of strange alien lifeform in some pre-big bang state of existence. If we have future lives they are no more or less us than any past life that we would have no memory of and certainly wouldn't be human.

Then again, it may be such that the laws of the universe don't allow for any metaphysical possibility that your mind-matter will ever combine again into another complex consciousness .... there's still the mental buzzing arranged throughout your body but there may never again be a 'you' ... even one that would never ever have any memory or psychological continuity with you as a human now.

It just all depends on how the metaphysical laws of reality are set up (when I say 'metaphysical' read it as 'mental and physical'). It's certainly logically possible that you will become conscious after death but that doesn't mean that it's metaphysically possible. Something will always exist it will just change form. So the question is: are the laws of reality such that it is metaphysically possible for the matter that you are made to recombine into a sort of complex consciousness in the future? The answer to that may be yes or no. But if the answer is yes then I believe it will eventually happen given enough time because it is my belief that metaphysical possibility + infinity = metaphysical actuality.

In any case, it may not be metaphysically possible and even if it is you will certainly have no memory of it. So whether you would consider it to really be 'you' or not would depend on if you would consider past lives to be you even if you could never have any sort of memory or connection or knowledge of them.

To answer your second question: No, I am not afraid. Not even one tiny little bit. I neither have a desire for nor a fear of death. Epicurus put it best:

"Death, therefore, the most awful of evils, is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are, death is not come, and, when death is come, we are not."
"Zen … does not confuse spirituality with thinking about God while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes." - Alan Watts
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#26
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
(July 22, 2020 at 7:33 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: Do atheists believe in a heaven or hell? A good place or bad place? If not, then what's the purpose of the distinction between good and evil?. I'd like to have a respectful conversation about this.

I don't need to believe in god, heaven or hell to be moral. Neither do you.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#27
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
Shazza - next to "religious views" you wrote "he exists" - which god are you referring to? Thor? Zeus? Perseus? Ganesh? Vishnu?
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#28
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
(July 22, 2020 at 7:58 am)Lawz Wrote:
(July 22, 2020 at 7:33 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: Do atheists believe in a heaven or hell? A good place or bad place? If not, then what's the purpose of the distinction between good and evil?. I'd like to have a respectful conversation about this.

Because in this life pain/suffering is bad/undesirable and pleasure/contentment is good/desirable. I can scarcely believe that people such as yourself need this pointing out to them in this day and age. Wow.

I do know this. I'm asking for the sake of procuring answers from someone other than myself. I promise I'm not THAT stupid. or maybe I am and i just don't know it yet : )

(July 22, 2020 at 8:12 am)Lawz Wrote: Shazza - next to "religious views" you wrote "he exists" - which god are you referring to? Thor? Zeus? Perseus? Ganesh? Vishnu?

He with a capital 'H'


And I only know Him by God/Jesus/Jehovah. The rest are fictional.
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#29
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
Dunno.


I'll be too dead to notice.
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#30
RE: Where do we go when we die and are you afraid?
(July 22, 2020 at 8:02 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: I'm just fascinated by atheism (I'm a psych student). (and when i say fascinated, I don't mean it in a sarcastic or patronizing way. I mean it genuinely) I really want to hear all your thoughts on the subject and i'm reading every message.

If this is true, and based on this thread and your posts, I'd suggest you find a different vocational path or a better school.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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