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[Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
#11
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
(September 4, 2020 at 12:00 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
(September 4, 2020 at 4:52 am)WinterHold Wrote: The Quran never said to kill people who ridicule Islam. It simply said to the believers to walk away and don't sit with those who ridicule "until they change the subject".
Why are you still here then?
Not a true ™ muslim?

Because Athiestforums.org is one of the environments that allow every person to state what they believe. That I call a healthy environment.

You can view in this older topic of mine that the Quran explicitly said that "relationship with non-believers is neither forbidden nor prohibited as long as they don't fight you and compel you from your land":

https://atheistforums.org/thread-60185.html

I can discuss my religion away from bigotry and lobbying that is the number one cause of extremism for any belief.
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#12
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
(September 4, 2020 at 9:03 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(September 4, 2020 at 5:14 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I think that's very good advice.  If someone is ridiculing your religion, it's pretty pointless to try to engage them.  Simply walk away, secure in your own bigotry and ignorance.

Of course, there's also Sura 9:5 which says, 'And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.'

Bit of a poser for you, I'm sure.

Boru

It's a good thing we agree on the first part.

But the part concerning "verse 5 of Sura 9" is an out of context statement that doesn't show what the rest of the Sura -nor the context of the verse- even speaks about; you quoted verse 9:5 alone quoting verses 9:4 9:5 9:6 will tell us a very different story than the one you claimed:

Quote:Sura 9, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=9_1&m=hafs&qaree=husary&trans=en_sh

( 4 )   Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].


( 5 )   And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

( 6 )   And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

Why didn't you mention the "exception" in verse 4?
Why didn't you mention the "asylum" allowance to many of the polytheists in verse 6?
Why didn't you mention the religious binding on Muslims not just to provide protection for refugees; but also to deliver them to their destination safely ?

Verse 5 is for the polytheists who wanted war, so don't you think it's really unfair of you to ask Muslims to be sitting ducks waiting for the slaughter ?
Your post is cherry picking a verse out of its context.

I didn’t mention any of that because I was cherry-picking.

I was pointing out that this is what religious fanatics (all religious fanatics, not just the Muslim ones) do. They hunt and peck for whichever verses they think will give them the ok to behave really, incredibly badly, whether it’s blowing up school buses, shooting up mosques, or discriminating against gay people.

Fortunately, the majority of religionists (well, the majority of all people, really) don’t do that.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#13
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
Quote:Because Athiestforums.org is one of the environments that allow every person to state what they believe. That I call a healthy environment.


Yup, AF good for that. I believe that the oppression of women, including FGM, prevalent in Islamic states, is caused by the ruling males' projected thoughts of infidelity/polyamory caused by their polygamous lifestyle, which is mandated for in the Qu'ran and Hadith and invariably lived by the male rulers/lawmakers in Islamic countries.

NEWS AT TEN!

[Image: burka-141298441A122DDF2DF.jpg]
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#14
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
(September 4, 2020 at 12:17 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(September 4, 2020 at 12:00 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Why are you still here then?
Not a true ™ muslim?

Because Athiestforums.org is one of the environments that allow every person to state what they believe. That I call a healthy environment.

You can view in this older topic of mine that the Quran explicitly said that "relationship with non-believers is neither forbidden nor prohibited as long as they don't fight you and compel you from your land":

https://atheistforums.org/thread-60185.html

I can discuss my religion away from bigotry and lobbying that is the number one cause of extremism for any belief.

Have you ever noticed that many people here talk about other things besides their obsession with whatever they are obsessed with?

You are a one-trick pony and a boring one at that.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#15
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
(September 4, 2020 at 12:17 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(September 4, 2020 at 12:00 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Why are you still here then?
Not a true ™ muslim?

Because Athiestforums.org is one of the environments that allow every person to state what they believe. That I call a healthy environment.

You can view in this older topic of mine that the Quran explicitly said that "relationship with non-believers is neither forbidden nor prohibited as long as they don't fight you and compel you from your land":

https://atheistforums.org/thread-60185.html

I can discuss my religion away from bigotry and lobbying that is the number one cause of extremism for any belief.

The Quran says that you should leave unbelievers alone that are rejecting and ridiculing your religion.

Quote:when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them

People on AF, per definitionem, are rejecting your religion, and most of them are ridiculing it.

Why are you not following the commands of your prophet?

According to Allahs commands you should only talk to the unbelievers here, "until they change the subject". You are supposed to not talk about Islam with those who ridicule and reject it, and rather talk to them about anything else. You got it exactly backwards and only discuss Islam topics, you even are starting each of those topics, but discuss nothing else. Its the exact opposite of what Allah tells you to do.

If i was Allah, i wouldnt be happy about your lack of obedience.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#16
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
(September 4, 2020 at 12:58 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
(September 4, 2020 at 12:17 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Because Athiestforums.org is one of the environments that allow every person to state what they believe. That I call a healthy environment.

You can view in this older topic of mine that the Quran explicitly said that "relationship with non-believers is neither forbidden nor prohibited as long as they don't fight you and compel you from your land":

https://atheistforums.org/thread-60185.html

I can discuss my religion away from bigotry and lobbying that is the number one cause of extremism for any belief.

The Quran says that you should leave unbelievers alone that are rejecting and ridiculing your religion.

Quote:when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them

People on AF, per definitionem, are rejecting your religion, and most of them are ridiculing it.

Why are you not following the commands of your prophet?

According to Allahs commands you should only talk to the unbelievers here, "until they change the subject". You are supposed to not talk about Islam with those who ridicule and reject it, and rather talk to them about anything else. You got it exactly backwards and only discuss Islam topics, you even are starting each of those topics, but discuss nothing else. Its the exact opposite of what Allah tells you to do.

If i was Allah, i wouldnt be happy about your lack of obedience.

Off with his head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In keeping with his faith, of course.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#17
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
Like any other believer, they should come out of the dark ages and discard their imaginary friend.
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#18
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
(September 4, 2020 at 2:32 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Off with his head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In keeping with his faith, of course.
I would chop his hand off  Hehe
So he cant move the mouse around and interact with infidels who mock his religion. I would make him a true ™ muslim.  Hehe
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#19
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
Take the so called "most liberal" muslim country, Turkey, where muslims burned down a hotel where the translator of The Satanic Verses was holding a seminar. Luckily he survived but 37 people, mostly Alevi intellectuals were killed.
That day certainly showed what true Islam is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivas_massacre
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#20
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?
I feel like this link may be relevant here:

https://www.religiousfreedominstitute.or...slim-world

Quote:In this post, let’s look a bit more closely at the religiously free states. The next two posts will look at the secular repressive and religiously repressive states.

Seven of these eleven states are in West Africa; the others are Lebanon, Djibouti, Albania, and Kosovo. Almost one-fourth of the total of Muslim-majority states, these are far from outliers. They give credence to the “Islamopluralists,” who stress the possibility of religious freedom and democracy in Islam.

Let’s focus on the West Africa Seven: Senegal, Mali, Niger, Guinea, Burkina Faso, Sierra Leone, and The Gambia. They are the geographic heart of the religiously free Muslim world and together offer the strongest existing evidence for the possibility of religious freedom in the Muslim world.

In most of these countries, Muslim majorities live side-by-side with Christian minorities. Some of these countries contain Shias and Ahmadis, whose beliefs diverge from those of mainstream Sunni Islam. Elsewhere they are persecuted, but not here. Tiny communities of Hindus, Baha’is, Jews, and other religions live in these countries as well.

Religious freedom is articulated boldly in these countries’ constitutions. They prescribe religious freedom explicitly and do not dilute it into a more generalized freedom of conscience or belief. These states give their citizens wide legal latitude to educate their children in their faith and are generally free of the kinds of restrictions that unfree Muslim states impose. There are no “religious tests” requiring one to be a Muslim to hold a certain political office. Generally, these states lack laws that prohibit blasphemy, defamation, or conversion away from Islam, or that restrict broadcasting, newspapers, or other forms of public speech.

What explains the high levels of religious freedom in the West Africa Seven? Contrary to the expectations of the secularization theory, which holds that tolerance is possible only when religion declines, West Africa is part of the most religious region of the world, according to the Pew Research Center.

For full context, check the link.

Sorry that there is no such thing as "true Islam", at least not the way some people see it just to serve their bigoted narrative.
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