One of the cases repeated by many non-Muslims and some Muslims who were brainwashed by the ISIS and Islamic extremists' speech is this simple case: "shouldn't Muslims just slaughter any person making fun of Islam and its Prophet peace be upon him" ?

The idea was propagated and spread with the rise of "extreme Islamic Jihad", but a direct and explicit verse from the Quran says exactly what should be done by Muslims who hear their religion being mocked and made fun of:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 140 )   And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

The Quran never said to kill people who ridicule Islam. It simply said to the believers to walk away and don't sit with those who ridicule "until they change the subject".

(September 4, 2020 at 4:52 am)WinterHold Wrote: One of the cases repeated by many non-Muslims and some Muslims who were brainwashed by the ISIS and Islamic extremists' speech is this simple case: "shouldn't Muslims just slaughter any person making fun of Islam and its Prophet peace be upon him" ?

The idea was propagated and spread with the rise of "extreme Islamic Jihad", but a direct and explicit verse from the Quran says exactly what should be done by Muslims who hear their religion being mocked and made fun of:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 140 )   And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

The Quran never said to kill people who ridicule Islam. It simply said to the believers to walk away and don't sit with those who ridicule "until they change the subject".

I think that's very good advice.  If someone is ridiculing your religion, it's pretty pointless to try to engage them.  Simply walk away, secure in your own bigotry and ignorance.

Of course, there's also Sura 9:5 which says, 'And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.'

Bit of a poser for you, I'm sure.

Boru

Well, it's simple. If all someone cares about is to ridicule someone else's beliefs, fine, but the other person isn't dong anything wrong by walking away. If someone wants to make friends with someone else, the last thing they would want to do is mock what they believe in.

OP advice as interpreted is a suitable advice in such case.

Well, if the question is what should a Muslim do, then presumably their highest duty is Islam and submission to God. That being the case, the combined corpus of the Quran, including its holding Mohammed out as an example of correct conduct, says different things at different times. So the advice that Mohammed and the Quran provides on the matter is self-contradictory, and no single ethic can be provided. As such, it gives no guidance as to what to do, and leaves Muslims to do what religionists the world over have been doing since time immemorial in doing whatever the fuck they feel like and then cherry-picking the support for their actions.

What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of? Realise how stupid the verses are, join in the fun and become outspoken atheists.

Is it really ridicule - if you are just pointing out how blitheringly stupid something is - if it IS blitheringly stupid?

I think it's just an accurate observation.....

(September 4, 2020 at 5:14 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 4, 2020 at 4:52 am)WinterHold Wrote: One of the cases repeated by many non-Muslims and some Muslims who were brainwashed by the ISIS and Islamic extremists' speech is this simple case: "shouldn't Muslims just slaughter any person making fun of Islam and its Prophet peace be upon him" ?

The idea was propagated and spread with the rise of "extreme Islamic Jihad", but a direct and explicit verse from the Quran says exactly what should be done by Muslims who hear their religion being mocked and made fun of:



The Quran never said to kill people who ridicule Islam. It simply said to the believers to walk away and don't sit with those who ridicule "until they change the subject".

I think that's very good advice.  If someone is ridiculing your religion, it's pretty pointless to try to engage them.  Simply walk away, secure in your own bigotry and ignorance.

Of course, there's also Sura 9:5 which says, 'And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.'

Bit of a poser for you, I'm sure.

Boru

It's a good thing we agree on the first part.

But the part concerning "verse 5 of Sura 9" is an out of context statement that doesn't show what the rest of the Sura -nor the context of the verse- even speaks about; you quoted verse 9:5 alone quoting verses 9:4 9:5 9:6 will tell us a very different story than the one you claimed:

Quote:Sura 9, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=9_1&m=hafs&qaree=husary&trans=en_sh

( 4 )   Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].


( 5 )   And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

( 6 )   And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

Why didn't you mention the "exception" in verse 4?
Why didn't you mention the "asylum" allowance to many of the polytheists in verse 6?
Why didn't you mention the religious binding on Muslims not just to provide protection for refugees; but also to deliver them to their destination safely ?

Verse 5 is for the polytheists who wanted war, so don't you think it's really unfair of you to ask Muslims to be sitting ducks waiting for the slaughter ?
Your post is cherry picking a verse out of its context.

And yet if someone just criticizes Islam, he or she immediately gets death threats

And yet another thread...the endless blather of a deluded man.

(September 4, 2020 at 4:52 am)WinterHold Wrote: The Quran never said to kill people who ridicule Islam. It simply said to the believers to walk away and don't sit with those who ridicule "until they change the subject".

Why are you still here then?
Not a true ™ muslim?