Posts: 66344
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 12:23 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2020 at 12:24 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 21, 2020 at 11:59 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: When a dictionary lists multiple definitions for a word (e.g. duck meaning animal vs duck meaning crouch) each definition functions as a separate word.
Faith 1 represents the way Scripture uses the word. This is seen both by the context in which it is used in the Bible (to trust) and the definition of the Greek word from which it is translated: πίστις
Faith 2 is a different word. It is used in a different context for a different reason. Note that the synonyms for Faith 2 include religion, church, denomination, etc. For example, "the Christian Faith" and "the Christian Religion" are synonymous with each other.
-Faith 1 is how Christians use the word.
-Faith 2 is what religions are called more broadly.
-Faith 3 (not found in the dictionary) is the atheist definition.
Geeee...you don't say? So faith as trust in the christian context is a different thing from faith as trust in, say, my wife?
Separate words....I'm sure I'm incorrect, again, for some novel definition of the word incorrect.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1697
Threads: 15
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 12:36 pm
No; faith in God and faith in your wife are both the same word (Faith 1).
Posts: 31006
Threads: 1384
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 12:37 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2020 at 12:37 pm by Foxaèr.)
Same word, but not the same concept.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 66344
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 12:38 pm
I guess I just can't trust the asshole who just told me that each separate definition functions as a separate word.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 3628
Threads: 20
Joined: July 20, 2011
Reputation:
47
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 1:12 pm
(September 21, 2020 at 12:36 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: No; faith in God and faith in your wife are both the same word (Faith 1).
And you have no problems with the easy, almost effortless ability, I have to demonstrate that my wife exists. Yet no one has yet been able to demonstrate that any god exists?
There seems to be a difference in definitions in the way 'faith' is used toward one's wife, and used toward a god.
A touch of intellectual dishonesty maybe...
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Posts: 4446
Threads: 87
Joined: December 2, 2009
Reputation:
47
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 1:14 pm
Has the word salad been settled yet? Honestly, it's probably a good read, just far too many pages to catch up on. I have faith in God. I have faith that this chair will hold me up when I sit on it. They are the same faith. I believe in God and I believe in my chair. I do not have absolute faith that all people are good all the time. I do have faith that most people can be good.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Posts: 2692
Threads: 11
Joined: May 13, 2013
Reputation:
17
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 1:20 pm
(September 21, 2020 at 1:14 pm)tackattack Wrote: Has the word salad been settled yet? Honestly, it's probably a good read, just far too many pages to catch up on. I have faith in God. I have faith that this chair will hold me up when I sit on it. They are the same faith. I believe in God and I believe in my chair. I do not have absolute faith that all people are good all the time. I do have faith that most people can be good.
Why are you so fucking dishonest?
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
Posts: 1697
Threads: 15
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 1:22 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2020 at 2:40 pm by John 6IX Breezy.)
(September 21, 2020 at 12:37 pm)Eleven Wrote: Same word, but not the same concept.
No; same word, same definition, different scenario.
(September 21, 2020 at 12:38 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I guess I just can't trust the asshole who just told me that each separate definition functions as a separate word.
You used two examples of Faith 1 (trust God vs trust wife). If you had said "I belong to the Christian Faith" that is an example of Faith 2, which is a separate word.
Posts: 4446
Threads: 87
Joined: December 2, 2009
Reputation:
47
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 1:30 pm
@ Sal - You can believe what you like and can call me a liar, it doesn't really help the conversation though. I have had that view, and that has been my view on faith for a consistently long period of time and that is the same shared meaning fellow Christians in my circle use. There's reasoned faith, and there's blind faith. Nothing prevents either of those from being checked and balanced. There's also unwavering faith, delusional faith irrational faith. Those last three are more in line with what typical atheists use for faith. Atheist and Theists can both have those as well. It's not my theology that justifies my irrational faith that you're not an asshat, despite the evidence.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Posts: 2692
Threads: 11
Joined: May 13, 2013
Reputation:
17
RE: Question about "faith"
September 21, 2020 at 3:02 pm
If you really had faith in the chair's ability to hold you up the same way you have faith in god - I don't suppose you could be able to post a picture of you sitting in your chair, as EVIDENCE for its durability? (relax, this is hypothetical - I don't actually want a picture of a chair with you sitting in it.)
Now, can you do the same thing for god, if you really have in the same way faith in the durability of the chair while sitting in it?
Only way you escape your usage of faith is by modulating it, by using adjectives in front of it. Here: "reasoned", "blind", "unwavering", "delusional", "irrational".
That you can't see the qualia difference in faith in gods distinctly apart from the existence of chairs and their durability, merely tells me just how dark and deep into the ocean of faith goes. Better bring a pressure diving suit.
---
Yes, I think you're a liar, and you have given me sufficient reason to support that accusation from your non-trivial use of the term 'faith' in equivocating your faith in god as being on the same conceptual level as durability of a fucking chair.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
|
