A Thought from a Deist

[fr0d0]

The Christian tradition allows for other gods *shrugs*.

Really? then what about the first commandment?

And Yahweh being a jealous god?

"You shall have no other gods before me" <--- sounds like the acknowledgement of 'other gods' to me *shrugs*

[Satyriasis]

I find your faith to be essentially pointless and without a logical or rational basis. But no, not offensive.

x2

I don't find your beliefs offensive as much as I find them to be a total waste of time....

[reverendjeremiah]

Why would a being who is perfect in every aspect bother to create a universe? Why would a being bother to create a universe full of lesser beings and test them when he already knows how they will do? Why would a being who is perfect allow a baby to be born only to die a day later without giving it the opportunity to face these tests? Why would a perfect being create another immensely powerful being, Satan, and then unleash him on the people he supposedly 'loves'?

Why would you believe such a complete load of bullshit to begin with?

1.) Because it pleased Him.
2.) Because He loves them.
3.) I do not know why, you'll have to ask Him.
4.) God created an angle and this one decided he would turn on his creator, Satan made himself and freewill is the rest of the story.
5.) Because it's true and no matter how much you rant and rave you can not change that fact.

#1 - So perfection isnt pleasing? Perfection isnt good enough so he needed more? I would think perfection would also include 100% pleasing, 100% satisfaction..apparently you have a very LOW idea of perfection, which makes sense now that I mention it.
#2 - He created something because he loved them before he created them? We are talking about BEFORE your mythological yahweh created the universe right?
#3 - Yeah..but you sure are making a list of why he did it arent you?
#4 - God needs help? God is all knowing and created an angel he knew would turn against him and not please him? Thats like me straping a bomb to my chest, setting it to detonate in 5 minutes, then getting mad that the bomb is going to blow up and hurt me. If your god exists then he is one seriously desturbed individual.
#5 - It isnt true, and if it is then I would not trust a single promise given by this hutty god of yours.

[everythingafter]

Jefferson and Thomas Paine were clearly brilliant guys, but I don't see how they didn't realize, even in their time, that a god who simply set the universe in motion and then stepped back holds no consequence for us, so, as others have said, why bother believing in that type of god? We have scientific explanations for how we got here following the Big Bang, so why is there any sense in introducing a god to explain what happened before it? Evolution eventually became the accepted means by which humans developed from lower strata, and at one time, human beings' existence was seemingly inexplainable other than by some god, just like the beginning of the universe is now. I think we should just let science to its job. Eventually, we will have the answer. I don't see a point in throwing our hands up and summoning a god in the meantime. It is a very primitive tendency of us humans. So, of course, while deists don't offend me, I don't think its constructive to continue the practice of looking to the heavens for answers to stuff we can't yet explain, like the ancients.

[reverendjeremiah]

Jefferson and Thomas Paine were clearly brilliant guys, but I don't see how they didn't realize, even in their time, that a god who simply set the universe in motion and then stepped back holds no consequence for us, so, as others have said, why bother believing in that type of god? We have scientific explanations for how we got here following the Big Bang, so why is there any sense in introducing a god to explain what happened before it? Evolution eventually became the accepted means by which humans developed from lower strata, and at one time, human beings' existence was seemingly inexplainable other than by some god, just like the beginning of the universe is now. I think we should just let science to its job. Eventually, we will have the answer. I don't see a point in throwing our hands up and summoning a god in the meantime. It is a very primitive tendency of us humans. So, of course, while deists don't offend me, I don't think its constructive to continue the practice of looking to the heavens for answers to stuff we can't yet explain, like the ancients.

I think they went with the deistic model because it was quite the rage with the scientists at the time. Science was still pretty young back in those days. I agree, there still is no reason to believe in a deism god, but these people were also politicians as well, and to come out as an atheist pretty much ruined your political standing, no matter how well grounded your stance was. I think they were deists more out of social acceptance than anything else..both for the scientific and political communities of the time.

[everythingafter]

these people were also politicians as well, and to come out as an atheist pretty much ruined your political standing, no matter how well grounded your stance was. I think they were deists more out of social acceptance than anything else..both for the scientific and political communities of the time.

Not so much in Paine's case, but of course, coming out and thrashing the NT like he did got him in enough trouble. Coming out as an atheist might have meant a lynching.

[Godscreated]

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Why would a being who is perfect in every aspect bother to create a universe? Why would a being bother to create a universe full of lesser beings and test them when he already knows how they will do? Why would a being who is perfect allow a baby to be born only to die a day later without giving it the opportunity to face these tests? Why would a perfect being create another immensely powerful being, Satan, and then unleash him on the people he supposedly 'loves'?

Why would you believe such a complete load of bullshit to begin with?

---

1.) Because it pleased Him.
2.) Because He loves them.
3.) I do not know why, you'll have to ask Him.
4.) God created an angle and this one decided he would turn on his creator, Satan made himself and freewill is the rest of the story.
5.) Because it's true and no matter how much you rant and rave you can not change that fact.

#1 - So perfection isnt pleasing? Perfection isnt good enough so he needed more? I would think perfection would also include 100% pleasing, 100% satisfaction..apparently you have a very LOW idea of perfection, which makes sense now that I mention it.
#2 - He created something because he loved them before he created them? We are talking about BEFORE your mythological yahweh created the universe right?
#3 - Yeah..but you sure are making a list of why he did it arent you?
#4 - God needs help? God is all knowing and created an angel he knew would turn against him and not please him? Thats like me straping a bomb to my chest, setting it to detonate in 5 minutes, then getting mad that the bomb is going to blow up and hurt me. If your god exists then he is one seriously desturbed individual.
#5 - It isnt true, and if it is then I would not trust a single promise given by this hutty god of yours.

1.) For someone that's suppose to know much about scripture you show little evidence of it. God's creation was perfect until Satan and man introduced sin into it and with it's corrupting force sin has brought God's creation to it's present state. You are in a sense correct about my idea of perfection that's why God provided me with a savior, your ideas of perfection are no better than mine.
2.) YES! He is omnipresent and omniscient. YES! Just because you can not love something before you recieve possession of it does not mean God is limited to your inadequacy.
3.) Stating what I see to be factual.
4.) God needs no help. Satan can not hurt God, read the book of Job and see God's power over Satan. Straping a bomb to your chest to prove a point makes you no more sane than those who do it to hurt others. God created other beings to love and to recieve love from them, the love that comes from us must be genuine and for this to be God gave us freewill.
5.) It's true no matter how desperate you are to try and prove otherwise. I've been trusting Him for sometime now and He has yet to fail. I know you'll never be able to understand this, trusting God falls under His will and knowing the best one can about His will aids one in trusting Him and understanding how God keeps His promises and answers prayer.

[Ace Otana]

I was tempted to take on the whole post but I'm still technically on a break from debating religion, so I thought I'd take on a part of it for now.

God's creation was perfect until Satan and man introduced sin into it and with it's corrupting force sin has brought God's creation to it's present state.

I love it when theists do this. To me, it demonstrates the falseness of their beliefs.
Ok, now lets for the sake of argument, that there is a god and he designed and created everything. I would like to ask you something. Lets say there's a new aircraft with new engines on them. Lets say that for some reason the engines caught fire and blew up and so thus sending the aircraft out of the sky. Would you blame the pilot or the designer and builder of the new engine? If that engine fails, it isn't the pilots fault, it's the designer and builder of that engine. Now god designed and created the universe correct? Now whatever happens, he is directly responsible for it. He designed it, he created it. If we behave in certain ways, it's his fault, that's how he designed us. Also, god is all knowing, he KNEW we were going to sin.
And another thing, he created everything, so this includes Satan does it not? So he designed and created a powerful being which he KNEW was going to turn on him.
For god to design and create what he KNOWS will fail is a FAIL in itself!
God also KNEW about the suffering of those he creates, he designed and created it as so, this tells me that he's an arsehole!
Care to point out the rationality of all this bullshit?!

[LastPoet]

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1.) For someone that's suppose to know much about scripture you show little evidence of it. God's creation was perfect until Satan and man introduced sin into it and with it's corrupting force sin has brought God's creation to it's present state. You are in a sense correct about my idea of perfection that's why God provided me with a savior, your ideas of perfection are no better than mine.
2.) YES! He is omnipresent and omniscient. YES! Just because you can not love something before you recieve possession of it does not mean God is limited to your inadequacy.
3.) Stating what I see to be factual.
4.) God needs no help. Satan can not hurt God, read the book of Job and see God's power over Satan. Straping a bomb to your chest to prove a point makes you no more sane than those who do it to hurt others. God created other beings to love and to recieve love from them, the love that comes from us must be genuine and for this to be God gave us freewill.
5.) It's true no matter how desperate you are to try and prove otherwise. I've been trusting Him for sometime now and He has yet to fail. I know you'll never be able to understand this, trusting God falls under His will and knowing the best one can about His will aids one in trusting Him and understanding how God keeps His promises and answers prayer.

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To be honest, I do feel sorry for you...

[Rev. Rye]

That being said, I still believe in God. All religion is nonsensical lunacy to me, especially Christianity, but I still believe in the existance of a God. Don't get me wrong. I offer this faith no value. I assign this God no name, no emotions, no concepts. I don't suppose to know him (or her). I don't believe he's sitting in the room with me or reading this thread. I don't suppose that he can see the future or that he even has any interest in the events of this world. Hell, I don't even think he's perfect. I don't think he's out to get anyone, and by that measure I don't think he's out to save anyone either. I don't pray to him to help me find my car keys, get a raise, or save my aunt from cancer. I don't believe in "heaven" or hell". I simply believe that God made this little universe, set it in motion, and said, "have at it." I think religion (especially Christianity) made God out to be something he never ever was and never will be. I think intelligence in creation can be seen in some cases, but in reality "God" got the worst wrap in history ... all thanks to the religions of mankind. I have found that this concept of a God with no religion REALLY pisses off christians in general. No surprise there, but what I was so very surprised to find is how often it irritates atheists. This is upsetting to me because I MUCH prefer the company of atheists to christians. I get it - christians cannot seperate their God from their religion, but why would some (not all) atheists find me so offensive. I don't give a shit if you believe in God or not ... why does it offend you that I have a faith without a flag. A belief without a book, and a God without an army.

Offensive? That? It looks as though you've done whatever you can to make it inoffensive to all but the most thin-skinned fundamentalists. That said, if there is a God, it's probably the most plausible scenario.