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Earthquakes in Croatia - deaths caused by unregulated buildings?
#1
Earthquakes in Croatia - deaths caused by unregulated buildings?
At the end of the last year and the beginning of this year, there have been some relatively strong earthquakes in Petrinja and Sisak, towns in Croatia near the border with Bosnia. They caused around 30 deaths. Since then, Croatian media often claim most or all of those deaths could have been avoided if the buildings were built according to regulations. That is, they claim the buildings that crashed and killed people in the earthquake were not actually properly built, and that this is because the regulations were not enforced enough (and that includes some government buildings). While it is tempting to believe that we can prevent deaths from earthquakes simply by following regulations, I ask myself if what the media is doing is just blaming the victim. I have no idea how to evaluate the statement that most or all of those deaths could have been avoided by following the laws related to building buildings. What do you think about that?
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#2
RE: Earthquakes in Croatia - deaths caused by unregulated buildings?
Enjoy.




Quote:Stanford engineers have built and tested an earthquake-resistant house that stayed staunchly upright even as it shook at three times the intensity of the destructive 1989 Loma Prieta temblor 25 years ago.
https://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/octo...01614.html

Poorly constructed buildings will, ofc, fall down in an earthquake. Well constructed traditional buildings will too, at a lesser rate, and very well constructed earthquake resistant buildings also have some limit - but it's all very clear...and very demonstrably clear, that the design of a building and the quality of it's construction are related to whether those buildings are more or less safe in an earthquake, but also day to day.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#3
RE: Earthquakes in Croatia - deaths caused by unregulated buildings?
(January 17, 2021 at 3:48 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Enjoy.




Quote:Stanford engineers have built and tested an earthquake-resistant house that stayed staunchly upright even as it shook at three times the intensity of the destructive 1989 Loma Prieta temblor 25 years ago.
https://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/octo...01614.html

Poorly constructed buildings will, ofc, fall down in an earthquake.  Well constructed traditional buildings will too, at a lesser rate, and very well constructed earthquake resistant buildings also have some limit - but it's all very clear...and very demonstrably clear, that the design of a building and the quality of it's construction are related to whether those buildings are more or less safe in an earthquake, but also day to day.

Well, yes, but I am not sure what those regulations those buildings in Petrinja and Sisak supposedly disobeyed actually say. And I have no means to evaluate whether they are sensible. So, you think the Croatian government is indeed too lax when it comes to enforcing building regulations?
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#4
RE: Earthquakes in Croatia - deaths caused by unregulated buildings?
(January 17, 2021 at 3:34 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: At the end of the last year and the beginning of this year, there have been some relatively strong earthquakes in Petrinja and Sisak, towns in Croatia near the border with Bosnia. They caused around 30 deaths. Since then, Croatian media often claim most or all of those deaths could have been avoided if the buildings were built according to regulations. That is, they claim the buildings that crashed and killed people in the earthquake were not actually properly built, and that this is because the regulations were not enforced enough (and that includes some government buildings). While it is tempting to believe that we can prevent deaths from earthquakes simply by following regulations, I ask myself if what the media is doing is just blaming the victim. I have no idea how to evaluate the statement that most or all of those deaths could have been avoided by following the laws related to building buildings. What do you think about that?

No, that’s blaming the architects who thought it would be a good idea to cut corners. And while it may be an exaggeration to claim they could have saved all the lives lost if they had done it properly, this line of reasoning isn’t unprecedented. Remember the Grenfell Towers fire in 2017?





72 people died in the fire, and it happened because the building’s owners were cheap and, during a recent renovation, installed a type of cladding that, once the initial fire started, caused the fire to travel up the building, not helped by the fact that the insulation wound up being extremely flammable. It also didn’t help that there was a rule telling people to stay in their flats during a fire unless it was directly affecting them, a rule which would only have helped in a building that wasn’t built like Grenfell was. Frankly, there was a massive smorgasbord of ignored regulations that led to the disaster, and the people who lived there weren’t responsible for any of it. I suspect that if I looked into the Croatian cases, it might be similar.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

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I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#5
RE: Earthquakes in Croatia - deaths caused by unregulated buildings?
It is entirely possible for buildings to have been constructed that don't meet the building code. It happens all the time. Inspectors are people, and people miss things. They can also be bribed to look the other way when the code is not met. In the '94 Northridge quake, one apartment building that collapsed, killing 16 people, was discovered to not have been built to code. I know that the contractor complicit in that was sent to prison. I hope he's still there, if he isn't dead yet. The Uniform Building Code was updated after that earthquake to provide requirements for more seismic bracing. I have no idea if bribed inspectors were complicit in your building losses, or the apartment in Northridge.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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#6
RE: Earthquakes in Croatia - deaths caused by unregulated buildings?
(January 17, 2021 at 4:02 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: Well, yes, but I am not sure what those regulations those buildings in Petrinja and Sisak supposedly disobeyed actually say.
I suspect that you could request the relevant data if it isn't already publicly available.  

Quote: And I have no means to evaluate whether they are sensible.
Yeah, you might have to learn something.  Perish the thought.

Quote:So, you think the Croatian government is indeed too lax when it comes to enforcing building regulations?
A failure to adequately or consistently enforce building regulations is a pretty common thing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#7
RE: Earthquakes in Croatia - deaths caused by unregulated buildings?
When you have 16 bucks to your name - you worry more about getting inside SOMETHING and not freezing to death.....

Earthquakes suck hind tit compared to winter....
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