Problem dealing with death as an atheist

[Girlysprite]

Now about the pascal's wager argument I read on earlier in the thread (a gambling man's choice) - it is argued that when you die and there is a god after all, you're better off believing. As such, it would make sense to believe, because it gives you better odds. Aside from the fact that there are many religions, which all excluse each other, there is another point I'd like to make.

This gamble somewhat assumes that believing does not come at a cost, it's a sort of insurance for free. That is not true. To become a 'good' believer (and what constitutes as good is already impossible to find out) you need to invest a lot of time and energy. I think about 5-10% of your waking time is not even a bad estimate for how much time ritual activities take. If the religion is not true, and there is nothing after all, that time is wasted. You had only one life, a limited amount of time, and you wasted it for nothing.
I find that price to be steep!

As for 'scientific proof' in archeology; many religions claim to have proof for their history. Not just Christians and Jews. And such proof is often shaky at best. Even if we leave out dead religions (and some of them aren't as dead as you think, old norse and celtic gods still have followers these days) there are still dozens of religions to choose from, and thousands of denominations. Let's be honest here, most people are 'religion x' because they were raised either as a member, or in an environment where many people were a member.

As for the soul: The problem is that many concepts of the soul consider the soul to be something unchangable, but at the same time personality is a basic part of the soul. It is already proven that damage in certain parts of the brain can change someone completely. Nice and easygoing persons can become vile toxic monsters, or the other way around. And not just brain damage changes how we act and what we are: hormones and certain types of drugs can change persons significantly. Personality is something that is embedded in the brain.

[sacrilicious]

I remember reading a comment once that stated that death is as eventful as your existence before birth. I don't want to cease to exist at this time, but I think death is the end of experience. Why fear what I can't experience?

That's not "not fearing death" but "ignoring death". Think about this: if you knew that after exactly 12 hours you would certainly die (inevitably - you cannot do anything about it), would you not fear it?

I believe that most people (90% or more) do fear death on the deathbed, whether they are atheists, deists, christians, muslims, etc. Until then, they can dream of a beautiful afterlife or just label it a "cease of existence". But, on the deathbed, most surely anything you were certain about becomes a "complete uncertainty" (and that's scary).

Anyway, I'm certain that most people, if not all, that attempt a suicide, also fear death - they're more convinced of its reality than a happy man that is in the middle of a party. Consider: why do you fear to throw yourself from the top of a high building? that you would survive?? You will not feel anything when you hit the ground! (well, if the building is high enough). If a man decides to commit suicide by throwing himself from the top of the building, but before he is ready to throw himself, you push him towards the edge, won't he fear that he would fall?? Why does he need to "be ready"?

So this "I don't fear death" I cannot believe. That's just ignoring the subject, stepping over it.

All of this fear is about pain and uncertainty on this side of death if you don't believe in existence after death . When I can no longer experience things, my definition of being dead, there is nothing to fear. There is nothing to fear with. You are dead. It is pretty simple really. I didn't come up with these views by ignoring the subject of death but by coming to the conclusion that I haven't a soul or any form of consciousness that will carry on after my body dies. Now just because I do or don't believe something doesn't make it true or false. It doesn't mean I won't change my mind later and spend all my days worried about the hereafter. Right now, I see humans as electro-chemical robots in a hydraulic body. One day the machine just stops working. Fear is an evolutionary tool to keep us alive. I do fear a painful form of dying, I do fear and avoid the things that can lead to me dying. I believe that once my brain and body stops functioning, fear is impossible. I would essentially be wasting time I could spend on living by spending time fearing a time I can't experience fear. As far as the 12 hrs left to live scenario, I wouldn't fear it, I just wouldn't like it. Pushing a man towards a precipice is taking his control away, another type of fear. I also never said humans were rational. I seen tons of videos of people committing suicide with no fear on there face while others scream as they plummet to the ground. As far as "being ready" to end one's life, well they are still undecided until they are air born.

[ilikeMe]

I find some confort imagining that I'm gonna turn out in a really beautifull flower!

[TheReligiousAtheist]

i dont know about you guys but im gona be the greatest scientist of all time, find that gene that make us get old and turn it off, so i can live forever. God bless you all.



wait.......

[reverendjeremiah]

i dont know about you guys but im gona be the greatest scientist of all time, find that gene that make us get old and turn it off, so i can live forever. God bless you all.

wait.......

Well, when you find it, be sure to ask before you give it to people. Some of us (me included) are not the least bit interested in immortality. Besides, the hell if I want to stick around once the majority of people have taken your cure. Sounds like it would literally be hell on Earth.

I have embraced my mortality.

[Zen Badger]

I'm not afraid of death, but getting old really,really sucks....

Bigtime......

[Gawdzilla]

Personally, I've been dead more than once. Flatlined at least three times I know of, jump started each time. Been in two comas that lasted over a week. In each case I could have "passed on" and that would have been that. Each time you have a deep, dreamless sleep you are effectively dead. If you die in your sleep you won't notice it. So you've already had practice at being dead and it wasn't bad, it wasn't good, it was just "not".

I wasn't here for the longest time, now I am, and I'll not be here for another very long time. The "now I am" part is all I can work with, so I'll be having fun, doing things I think need to be done, and loving it while I got it.

---

I'm not afraid of death, but getting old really,really sucks....

Bigtime......

"You don't start growing old until you stop growing up." I'm 6 (x 10) years old right now.

[Garmston Ansell]

Personally, I've been dead more than once. Flatlined at least three times I know of, jump started each time. Been in two comas that lasted over a week. In each case I could have "passed on" and that would have been that. Each time you have a deep, dreamless sleep you are effectively dead. If you die in your sleep you won't notice it. So you've already had practice at being dead and it wasn't bad, it wasn't good, it was just "not".

I wasn't here for the longest time, now I am, and I'll not be here for another very long time. The "now I am" part is all I can work with, so I'll be having fun, doing things I think need to be done, and loving it while I got it.

---

I'm not afraid of death, but getting old really,really sucks....

Bigtime......

"You don't start growing old until you stop growing up." I'm 6 (x 10) years old right now.

What kinds of things will you be doing?

[Gawdzilla]

What kinds of things will you be doing?

First, working at the Endangered Wolf Center. I muck out ditches, lead tours (ever see a dozen Brownies reacting to 35 howling wolves?), do Outreach programs at schools, etc.

I also run two document archive sites (along with my partner in crime, Patrick Clancey).

WWII Resources and Hyperwar. Between them we have over 75 gigbytes of document online. I also have a site for documentary information for the USN, 1775-1925, and work with the Naval History and Heritage Command and the Center of Military History.

And, of course, I keep an eye on the fundies in this state, watching for "back door to religion" efforts.

[Garmston Ansell]

What kinds of things will you be doing?

First, working at the Endangered Wolf Center. I muck out ditches, lead tours (ever see a dozen Brownies reacting to 35 howling wolves?), do Outreach programs at schools, etc.

I also run two document archive sites (along with my partner in crime, Patrick Clancey).

WWII Resources and Hyperwar. Between them we have over 75 gigbytes of document online. I also have a site for documentary information for the USN, 1775-1925, and work with the Naval History and Heritage Command and the Center of Military History.

And, of course, I keep an eye on the fundies in this state, watching for "back door to religion" efforts.

You mean like neighborhood watch?