How do christens justify child molestation?

[Belacqua]

My question is how do catholics justify it. I mean the must if there willing to protect members of the clergy from the authorities. 

I'm not sure that "justify" is the correct word here.

To justify something you have to argue that it's not really bad. I think the vast majority of Catholics know that child abuse is bad. The trouble is that they are too quick to forgive or hide it. 

That's a common thing, though. When the guilty party is a member of your own in-group, there's a double standard. Atheists on this forum who say idiotic things about religion are less likely to get pushback than Christians who say idiotic things. Likewise Catholics who see evil Catholics are more willing to make excuses, or claim it won't happen again, etc.

Again, to justify evil is to argue that it's not evil. To look straight at murder or theft or something and make a case that it wasn't bad in this case. For that, the main example in today's world is US foreign policy, and the way it makes use of the military. 

So if anyone is wondering how large institutions can justify evil, that's the case to investigate.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Charming new guy.  

Not going to try to converse with that shoulder chip.

Y'all carry on.

I can deal with the chip, it's the atrocious grammar and spelling that's making my brain beat faster.

Boru

[Rev. Rye]

Hard to take you seriously, but I’ll have a go.

They don’t ‘justify’ it. They hide it, conceal it, and use the institutional mechanisms of the Church to cover it up and protect the abusers. This is how we know they know it’s wrong - if there was a dogma that allowed it, they wouldn’t take the trouble to hide it.

Boru

Well, the higher-ups do. I think he’s talking about the ordinary believers. And, in that case, it’s either ignored (because their power intimidates people, whether this is because they actively silence critics or because said believers are conditions to be blinded from their wrongdoings by the perps’ power) or minimized as being the result of a few depraved (and usually homosexual) priests. To be fair, they may be right, depending on how you define “a few depraved priests,” since, if the statistic quoted in Spotlight still holds true, 6% of all priests offend against children, which leaves a less fucked-up majority of 94% (although only about half of the priesthood actually stays true to the vow of chastity, just doing more normal affairs, the sort of mala prohibita that only the church would give a shit about.) However, if the estimate of 414,582 Catholic Priests worldwide I found on Wikipedia, that adds up to 24,875 child molesting priests worldwide, which may not jibe with many definitions of “a few priests.”

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Hard to take you seriously, but I’ll have a go.

They don’t ‘justify’ it. They hide it, conceal it, and use the institutional mechanisms of the Church to cover it up and protect the abusers. This is how we know they know it’s wrong - if there was a dogma that allowed it, they wouldn’t take the trouble to hide it.

Boru

Well, the higher-ups do. I think he’s talking about the ordinary believers. And, in that case, it’s either ignored (because their power intimidates people, whether this is because they actively silence critics or because said believers are conditions to be blinded from their wrongdoings by the perps’ power) or minimized as being the result of a few depraved (and usually homosexual) priests. To be fair, they may be right, depending on how you define “a few depraved priests,” since, if the statistic quoted in Spotlight still holds true, 6% of all priests offend against children, which leaves a less fucked-up majority of 94% (although only about half of the priesthood actually stays true to the vow of chastity, just doing more normal affairs, the sort of mala prohibita that only the church would give a shit about.) However, if the estimate of 414,582 Catholic Priests worldwide I found on Wikipedia, that adds up to 24,875 child molesting priests worldwide, which may not jibe with many definitions of “a few priests.”

See, I didn’t get that at all. He mentioned dogma and protection from the secular authorities, both of which would apply to the church hierarchy, not the laity.

Boru

[Fireball]

Back when I was a church-going Catholic, my take was that I expected that the management would handle and correct the situation. I'd expect that a lot of us felt that way. As far as prosecution goes, even when someone in the church's management structure is proven to aid and abet molestation, I've seen where prosecutors refuse to even approach putting a case together to try, say, a Cardinal, in court. Mahoney in Los Angeles comes to mind.

[Rev. Rye]

Well, the higher-ups do. I think he’s talking about the ordinary believers. And, in that case, it’s either ignored (because their power intimidates people, whether this is because they actively silence critics or because said believers are conditions to be blinded from their wrongdoings by the perps’ power) or minimized as being the result of a few depraved (and usually homosexual) priests. To be fair, they may be right, depending on how you define “a few depraved priests,” since, if the statistic quoted in Spotlight still holds true, 6% of all priests offend against children, which leaves a less fucked-up majority of 94% (although only about half of the priesthood actually stays true to the vow of chastity, just doing more normal affairs, the sort of mala prohibita that only the church would give a shit about.) However, if the estimate of 414,582 Catholic Priests worldwide I found on Wikipedia, that adds up to 24,875 child molesting priests worldwide, which may not jibe with many definitions of “a few priests.”

See, I didn’t get that at all. He mentioned dogma and protection from the secular authorities, both of which would apply to the church hierarchy, not the laity.

Boru

That part could potentially apply to the laity, but only if you ignore how heavily the cards have been stacked against them in cases like this, whether it's the standard issues in holding "pillar of the community" offenders accountable, or how, until shockingly recently (like, it was only abolished twenty years ago recently), the Church had an official procedure for this sort of thing which actually treated it internally and barred the victims from going public about the abuse under pain of excommunication under the seal of confession (which normally only applies to the priest who heard the confession and not the sinner who said it). And, as a rule, until about 2002, the legal authorities tended to just leave it at that. So, there was a good chance many were convinced that trying would just lead to the justice equivalent to this:





With them as the whites.

And while it's not quite that bad anymore, prosecuting a pillar of the community (which a local priest tends to be) is depressingly difficult, even more than usual. Just study the downfall of Larry Nassar for an example:



The most germane difference in this case (besides the stupefying scale of abuse uncovered from just one abuser) is that Nassar put himself in the insanely good position of being able to justify his abuse as part of medical procedures that are  just legitimate enough that they can be published in medical journals but not well-known end that the victims and their families can easily call bullshit on it.

Or, for that matter, read this transcript of the Surrey Police's interview of Jimmy Savile, the closest that one of the biggest sex offenders in history ever came to being brought to justice. And, even then, a lot of the time, the coppers seem more like they're talking to the famous TV personality they knew he was and not the nonce he was being accused of.

[LadyForCamus]

“AngryAtheist666”?

Reallly?

Yeah, okay.

[AngryAtheist666]

Bump....

[arewethereyet]

You did get some answers.

Maybe you can tell us what answer it is you want and one of us can parrot it back to you.

[Mercyvessel]

If your an atheist you should know about all of the shit the catholic church has done to earn the label. My question is how do catholics justify it. I mean the must if there willing to protect members of the clergy from the authorities. Is there anything in there dogma that suggests its justified in the catholic faith. I know god chose to knock up a preteen with baby Jesus but that's pretty much all I know that would justify it in there eyes.

Links to evidence please.

To equate a true Christian (one whose key objective according to the Word of GOD is/should be to love his/her neighbor as  he/she loves him/herself) - to those (no personal judgment) who simply profess Christianity and to "catholics" is to err. 

Wicked practices of many sorts happen virtually everywhere in this world! The problem is the condition of the heart of the perp, whatever their occupational station (teacher, priest, etc) or gender!

Also, I would be remiss if I did not caution about insulting GOD in the attempt to compare hideous practices to a Divine event of such spiritually consequential magnitude (it wasn't for fun and games).  - (Matt 12:36).

Ultimately, every human being is individually accountable to The Creator! (2 Corinthians 5:10).

V