The Watchmaker: my fav argument

[Angrboda]

When was this and what was the source of the quote?

Somebody on this forum had it as his signature. It was by H.L. Mencken or somebody like that.

Yeah, no, I don't think Mencken ever said anything like that. This has all the appearance of a fish story.

[John 6IX Breezy]

Yeah, no, I don't think Mencken ever said anything like that.  This has all the appearance of a fish story.

I've definitely heard the ocean thing before. Here's a meme: https://ibb.co/f9s5LGc

[Belacqua]

Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.
Ambrose Bierce

https://www.azquotes.com/author/1387-Amb...g/religion

[Angrboda]

Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.
Ambrose Bierce

https://www.azquotes.com/author/1387-Amb...g/religion

You realize Ambrose Bierce is a satirist, I hope. You've misrepresented the quote, as well. Ambrose Bierce didn't say anything about design but rather about the puzzling idea that the world was created just for man, about which his observation is dead on.

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Yeah, no, I don't think Mencken ever said anything like that.  This has all the appearance of a fish story.

I've definitely heard the ocean thing before. Here's a meme: https://ibb.co/f9s5LGc

Again, not about design.

[John 6IX Breezy]

Again, not about design.

Belacqua addressed the point to me and I understood it. Mister Agenda asked for the source and it was provided. I'm not sure anything more needs to be said.

[Angrboda]

Again, not about design.

Belacqua addressed the point to me and I understood it. Mister Agenda asked for the source and it was provided. I'm not sure anything more needs to be said.

I'm not sure that I agree there. I think it bears noting that both you and Bel were mocking supposedly bad arguments when in fact it was you and he whose argument was bad.

It's also worth remarking about how the quote is about how self-centered Christians are and here you are toddling in to say that your understanding what he meant is all that matters.

[John 6IX Breezy]

There was no mocking.

[arewethereyet]

Time to get your boots...it's too late to save your shoes.

Shit's gettin' deep in this thread.

[Belacqua]

You realize Ambrose Bierce is a satirist, I hope.  You've misrepresented the quote, as well.  Ambrose Bierce didn't say anything about design but rather about the puzzling idea that the world was created just for man, about which his observation is dead on.

Yes, everybody knows Bierce was a satirist. 

In the epithet I quoted he is mocking the idea that the earth was made for people. His reasoning is that if it were really made for people, not so much of it would be ocean. Because, lacking gills, people can't live comfortably in the ocean. 

It is about design, because it's about the structure which, supposedly, God gave the world. Bierce thinks a world that really was designed for people would have less ocean, or people would be designed with gills. 

I brought up Bierce's satire because the poster on this forum called Apollo used a similar argument about the whole universe. He said that if God designed the universe the design is a failure, because so much of it is unusable or uninteresting to people. I have explained at length why I think that is a bad argument. For one thing, it is completely human-centered. Theists who think that God cannot be understood by people wouldn't judge the design of the universe on how comfortable it is for people.

[Angrboda]

You realize Ambrose Bierce is a satirist, I hope.  You've misrepresented the quote, as well.  Ambrose Bierce didn't say anything about design but rather about the puzzling idea that the world was created just for man, about which his observation is dead on.

Yes, everybody knows Bierce was a satirist. 

In the epithet I quoted he is mocking the idea that the earth was made for people. His reasoning is that if it were really made for people, not so much of it would be ocean. Because, lacking gills, people can't live comfortably in the ocean. 

It is about design, because it's about the structure which, supposedly, God gave the world. Bierce thinks a world that really was designed for people would have less ocean, or people would be designed with gills. 

I brought up Bierce's satire because the poster on this forum called Apollo used a similar argument about the whole universe. He said that if God designed the universe the design is a failure, because so much of it is unusable or uninteresting to people. I have explained at length why I think that is a bad argument. For one thing, it is completely human-centered. Theists who think that God cannot be understood by people wouldn't judge the design of the universe on how comfortable it is for people.

Yeah, nothing human-centric about Christian theology. Pfft. You nailed that one. The human-centricity was Bierce's point. Are those the same people who are arguing that you can know God through his design? Who was it that said that God had a fondness for beetles? Christian theology, the story of God's chosen, is about how we are not just a side-show in God's plan, but center stage! I've yet to see an argument from you about how Apollo's point about the vast emptiness of space doesn't indicate poor design other than an invalid analogy to the oceans, and some falderal about how people who wouldn't judge the design of the universe wouldn't judge the universe by the criteria of utility. True, but hardly useful. And people who don't ride bicycles don't ride touring bicycles.

I rather find it amusing that John was suggesting the empty inaccessible spaces were ours to explore and exploit, and you, supposedly agreeing with him, argued that the emptiness of the oceans was to prevent us exploring and exploiting them. Man has found his gills, despite not being furnished with them.