Stupid Argument I Thought Of

[Zenith]

We are what we do.

We do what we want.

Therefore we are what we want to be.

(It's obviously completely flawed because premise 1 is unsound).

well, of course, I'm a critic:

1. We aren't what we do. What we do changes us, but we are more than what we do (personality, motives, yearns, etc.).

2. Many times we don't do what we want. Besides of the obligatory things, we also believe what the society wants us to believe, do what it wants us to do, etc. Even the manipulated mind believes that is free, anyway. And we can't check which of our beliefs is what we found out alone and which are those that others wanted us to believe (e.g. a man can despise a nation because the society despises it and because it teaches in that way, and may believes that his despise comes from his own reasoning).

3. We can't be what we want to be, mostly. And many times this fact causes frustration.

[ib.me.ub]

'We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit'.

Aristotle

[reverendjeremiah]

We are what we eat.

I just finished off a box of Cheez-Its

mmm..yummy..I like binny..er, I mean Cheez-its

[Zenith]

'We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit'.

Aristotle

Aristotle or not, I still think that my theory is better: Saying that you are what you repeatedly do ignores what you want to do or be, your personality traits, etc.
If a man A works all his life (work, eat, sleep, until death) any job you wish, and you have another man B, that works all his life (work, eat, sleep, until death) the same kind of job, these repetitive doings do not make A = B. On the contrary A is different than B because of personality traits, what they actually want to be or do, etc.

[Violet]

@Zenith: When you put the emphasis of the thought on excellence (or any other trait you could note there), it might make more sense to you

Observe: Criminality, then, is not an act, but a habit.
Observe: Insanity, then, is not an act, but a habit.

That's the focus of his idea... though excellence as a habit does indeed partly define us.

[Zen Badger]

How about "We are what we choose to do"

There are many things we have to do, work, pay bills, have a crap, etc, etc.....

These however won't define a person.

The things that we choose, to be charitable, to be mean, to start a fight at the pub for fun, to take up bunge jumping or lawnbowls. These are the actions that state who we are.

And the the things you choose to do speak volumes above that which you merely say you are.

For instance, think of the TV evangelists and the like who preach about "family values", chasity etc and then get caught with a prostitute or rent boy. What speaks louder to you?

[Edwardo Piet]

And premise 2.

Hah. Yeah it is. I didn't mean to say that we can do anything we want. I meant rather that any things that we do actually do, we desire to do because desires motivate us to do things.

I wish I could think of a shorter answer for that?

[Zenith]

How about "We are what we choose to do"

There are many things we have to do, work, pay bills, have a crap, etc, etc.....

These however won't define a person.

The things that we choose, to be charitable, to be mean, to start a fight at the pub for fun, to take up bunge jumping or lawnbowls. These are the actions that state who we are.

And the the things you choose to do speak volumes above that which you merely say you are.

For instance, think of the TV evangelists and the like who preach about "family values", chasity etc and then get caught with a prostitute or rent boy. What speaks louder to you?

these do not fully define a person either.
Consider a person X, that was born in a gang and has been taught since early ages to steal, kill, etc. If that same person had actually been born in a nice family with economic sufficiency (i.e. to be able to live with those money) and all things needed, etc. he would have been a totally different person.

Moreover, if you or I or anyone else would have been born in the Nazi Germany, we can't tell who would have believed Hitler and would have been ready to kill all jews and gypsies and who would have had mercy on them. Also, of those that would have believed Hitler, we can't tell who would have finally realized it was wrong, and who would have died as a nazi. Perhaps even the "angels" of the society would have turned to "demons" and former "demons" of the society would have turned to "angles" (metaphorically speaking).

No matter what anyone DOES, there can be no answer to these questions. Because, by the DEEDS done, one cannot KNOW what a man would do and what not. Even oneself cannot KNOW, what he would have done in a situation like that (if he was born in Nazi Germany, etc.).

Perhaps a man that killed other people, but was born in a gang (the gang was doing things like that) had the same good intentions as an ordinary "good" man, only that he hasn't be given the opportunity to be different (which includes, to know how it is and what it means to be in a certain different way, and to be able to get out of the gang).

So I believe that our actions (along with what we say, our behavior as a whole) do model us, but do not define us. They can be evidences of what we already are, but we are not them. I also believe that we are unique by the simple fact that we are not others - this sole fact makes us capable of doing different things than the others.

as about these particular choices - "to be charitable, to be mean, to start a fight at the pub for fun, to take up bunge jumping or lawnbowls." - do not fully define us either. If I'd say "choices", I guess they are too similar with deeds: they are evidences of what we already are, they do not define us. However, dilemmas are more interesting, because our choice here does not quite reflect what we already are. When you are put in a hard situation in where it is very easy to fall to either of the two sides, you finally take a decision, which transforms you, much more than the easy daily choices of your life.

But, I don't think the decisions taken in dilemmas fully define us. Our intentions and our desires, which are hidden, also define us, but still, I'm sure that there are others as well.