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[Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
#21
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 23, 2021 at 8:52 pm)LostLocke Wrote:
(July 23, 2021 at 11:33 am)brewer Wrote: [Image: giphy-4.gif?fit=245%2C158]

When I think of Tim Curry I tend to go in a different direction...

[Image: 3kkJkAfKgT_AGZ-T5ipARnTXqJ0Pajq39qxDfJow...780106c5b5]

[Image: A0UW.gif]
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#22
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 23, 2021 at 11:04 am)Astreja Wrote: Why go to the Hajj, get heat stroke and potentially get killed in a stampede when you can...

(checks to-do list for Friday)

...listen to an audiobook, eat cookies, or paint a chair?

If your health doesn't allow it don't go -just like me and Millions of others-. 
As for the cause of going, it's the love a Muslim has for Allah. The same reason makes us pray.

(July 23, 2021 at 11:18 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
Quote:...a Muslim is supposed to do the Hajj once in a lifetime only.

I thought it was ‘at least’ once in a lifetime, that it is compulsory to do it once, but doing more often is voluntary. No?

Boru

That's the general opinion, but there is a downside to this opinion which is "the taking of space in the Hajj". I mean the place is very crowded when the season comes; so it's quite selfish to take a space there every year.

(July 23, 2021 at 4:09 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Atlass 

I can't stop you from buying old mythology. But the Hajj during a pandemic seems a bit dangerous. I am even with Japan in not doing the Olympics considering that they only have about 20% of their population vaccinated. 

Years ago I remember a story about a restaurant bombing by Muslim extremists in an Asian country, forgot where. But investigators begged the family of the dead not to burry them so quickly because the medical exams could go a long way into finding the killers. 

Sometimes reality gets in the way of your personal feelings. If you love your loved ones and you don't want them getting sick and dying, then sometimes science is what you listen to. 

Even in America, I think we opened up once again too early, and the Delta variant of COVID is spreading like wild fire, especially in religiously conservative states where the GOP leaders are putting power over public safety.

Yep, that's why nobody went there except for few ! 
Picture before COVID:

[Image: 1625184006_shutterstock_652123213.jpg?im...height=356]

Picture after COVID:

[Image: 8232982353035267.jpg]
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#23
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 23, 2021 at 11:04 am)Astreja Wrote: Why go to the Hajj, get heat stroke and potentially get killed in a stampede when you can...

(checks to-do list for Friday)

...listen to an audiobook, eat cookies, or paint a chair?

(July 24, 2021 at 7:48 pm)WinterHold Wrote: If your health doesn't allow it don't go...

I think you missed my point, WinterHold. As a lifetime non-Muslim, I have absolutely no desire to go to the Hajj, and find vastly more meaning in the mundane activities I listed above.
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#24
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 24, 2021 at 11:33 pm)Astreja Wrote:
(July 23, 2021 at 11:04 am)Astreja Wrote: Why go to the Hajj, get heat stroke and potentially get killed in a stampede when you can...

(checks to-do list for Friday)

...listen to an audiobook, eat cookies, or paint a chair?

(July 24, 2021 at 7:48 pm)WinterHold Wrote: If your health doesn't allow it don't go...

I think you missed my point, WinterHold.  As a lifetime non-Muslim, I have absolutely no desire to go to the Hajj, and find vastly more meaning in the mundane activities I listed above.

As a non-Muslim you don't have to do it; I thought that was obvious !
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#25
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 25, 2021 at 4:56 pm)WinterHold Wrote: As a non-Muslim you don't have to do it; I thought that was obvious !

The phrasing, with the "you," just seemed a little strange. Smile

I can appreciate that the Hajj is a major event for Muslims. I do question the wisdom of holding it during summer months, even if it's traditionally held on certain dates on the Islamic calendar. The sheer numbers of people converging on one place all at once is worrisome, too. For the safety of the pilgrims, holding it several times a year for smaller groups would be a good idea, even if it went against tradition.
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#26
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
If you have to take a pilgrimage to a place then you aren't worshipping god, you're worshipping religion.
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#27
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 25, 2021 at 7:06 pm)Astreja Wrote:
(July 25, 2021 at 4:56 pm)WinterHold Wrote: As a non-Muslim you don't have to do it; I thought that was obvious !

The phrasing, with the "you," just seemed a little strange. Smile

I can appreciate that the Hajj is a major event for Muslims.  I do question the wisdom of holding it during summer months, even if it's traditionally held on certain dates on the Islamic calendar.  The sheer numbers of people converging on one place all at once is worrisome, too.  For the safety of the pilgrims, holding it several times a year for smaller groups would be a good idea, even if it went against tradition.

In the past diseases did spread between the pilgrims, take the famous Cholera outbreak of 1821:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj


Quote:During the 1821 Hajj, about 20,000 Meccan pilgrims died due to a cholera epidemic. The disease had started in India in 1817.[31]
Another cholera epidemic began in 1863. It started in the Ganges Delta of the Bengal region and traveled with Muslim pilgrims to Mecca during the 1865 hajj. In its first year, the epidemic claimed the life of 15,000 to 90,000 pilgrims. Cholera spread throughout the Middle East and was carried to RussiaEuropeAfrica and North America. It resulted in the death of almost 600,000 people.[32][31]
In 1905 the El Tor strain of cholera was discovered in six pilgrims returning from Hajj at the El-Tor quarantine camp in Egypt.

Notice that diseases as bad as Cholera didn't stop the pilgrimage; so why would the heat do so ?
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#28
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 23, 2021 at 10:13 am)WinterHold Wrote: Today is "13 Dul Hijjah"; which is Friday, 23 July 2021: the last and final day of the 6 days Hajj Pilgrimage, a cornerstone of the 5 pillars of Islam, a Muslim is supposed to do the Hajj once in a lifetime only.

Through the 6 days of the journey, those who go should wear the "Ihram", and practice the following verse to the letter:


Quote:Sura 2, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=2_197&m=hafs&qaree=husary&trans=en_sh

( 197 )   Hajj is [during] well-known months, so whoever has made Hajj obligatory upon himself therein [by entering the state of ihram], there is [to be for him] no sexual relations and no disobedience and no disputing during Hajj. And whatever good you do - Allah knows it. And take provisions, but indeed, the best provision is fear of Allah. And fear Me, O you of understanding.

( 198 )   There is no blame upon you for seeking bounty from your Lord [during Hajj]. But when you depart from 'Arafat, remember Allah at al- Mash'ar al-Haram. And remember Him, as He has guided you, for indeed, you were before that among those astray.


( 199 )   Then depart from the place from where [all] the people depart and ask forgiveness of Allah. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

( 200 )   And when you have completed your rites, remember Allah like your [previous] remembrance of your fathers or with [much] greater remembrance. And among the people is he who says, "Our Lord, give us in this world," and he will have in the Hereafter no share.


In the 6th day of the journey though, Muslims should act "the stoning of Satan", AKA "رمي الجمرات":


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj#Last_..._al-Hijjah


Quote:performs symbolic stoning of the devil by throwing stones at three pillars. After the sacrifice of an animal (can be accomplished by using a voucher (see below)), the Pilgrims then are required to either shave or trim their heads (male) or trim the ends of their hair (female). A celebration of the three-day global festival of Eid al-Adha proceeds thereafter.[11][12][13][14]
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj#cite_note-14][/url]
And that's that. 

More verses from the Quran:


Quote:Sura 2, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=2_203&m=hafs&qaree=husary&trans=en_sh

( 203 )   
And remember Allah during [specific] numbered days. Then whoever hastens [his departure] in two days - there is no sin upon him; and whoever delays [until the third] - there is no sin upon him - for him who fears Allah. And fear Allah and know that unto Him you will be gathered.

`
Quote:Sura 2, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 31 )   Inclining [only] to Allah, not associating [anything] with Him. And he who associates with Allah - it is as though he had fallen from the sky and was snatched by the birds or the wind carried him down into a remote place.

( 32 )   That [is so]. And whoever honors the symbols of Allah - indeed, it is from the piety of hearts.

( 33 )   For you the animals marked for sacrifice are benefits for a specified term; then their place of sacrifice is at the ancient House.

( 34 )   And for all religion We have appointed a rite [of sacrifice] that they may mention the name of Allah over what He has provided for them of [sacrificial] animals. For your god is one God, so to Him submit. And, [O Muhammad], give good tidings to the humble [before their Lord]

( 35 )   Who, when Allah is mentioned, their hearts are fearful, and [to] the patient over what has afflicted them, and the establishers of prayer and those who spend from what We have provided them.

( 36 )   And the camels and cattle We have appointed for you as among the symbols of Allah; for you therein is good. So mention the name of Allah upon them when lined up [for sacrifice]; and when they are [lifeless] on their sides, then eat from them and feed the needy and the beggar. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may be grateful.

You do know I hope, that the walking around that meteorite far predated Islam. They used to worship hundreds of gods in the Kaaba, including the 3 divine daughters which originally were Allah's daughters, in the now removed, Satanic Verses. It was but one of many many cultural practices, ideas, myths, concepts and literary artifacts they took from the culture which invented Islam. 
Even the Shia/Sunni conflict was basically a cultural war long before the made up conflict Muslims pretend it originated from.   
Almost nothing in Islam is original. Even the god developed directly from the Arabic moon-god, al-Illah, (also known as the god named "Sin" in the Bible, whom the Hebrews were told again and again to stop worshipping, .... in that sense Islam is not an "Abrahamic" religion, as the gods are different, although they both do revere Abraham as a prophet).

Among the elements in the Quran they stole, (actually in academia, it's known as "syncretism" or "borrowing", but it's certainly not original),from other sources are:

1. Moses and the Fish, (came from Babylon/Ugarit/the El myths),
2. Solomon listening to the ants, common fairy tales, existing all over the Ancient Near East,
3. Jinns, (genies) working for Solomon, both common fairy tales, existing all over the Ancient Near East,
4. Mary in the temple, (stolen from one of the proto gospels),
5. Jesus talking in the crib, (from the known Proto Gospel after Jacob)
6. The Egyptian child stories, (from the Arab Child Gospel, and The Thomas' Child Gospel), both just made up fairy stories.
7. Jesus making birds from clay, (known source, .."The Child Gospel after Thomas" vs 1-4),
8. Mary and the Palm, was taken from the Proto Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 20.
9. Mo's Night Journey to Heaven, taken from either the Hebrew Merebah, or the well known Gnostic "Enoc's Journey to Heaven", which is identical to to Ibn Ishaq’s story after Abu Said al-Chudri)
10. The Sleepers in the Cave, straight from the fairy story from Ephesus, (Mo got the dates wrong, but the story is right),
11. Alexander the Great, (Surah 18), (straight plagiarism), AND there was NO place in the world with enough iron blocks to close off a whole valley in 330 BC.
12. The myth about Ad. Straight from Arab folk tales.
13. Thamud – same as 12.
14. Median – copied from Arab folk tales.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn
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#29
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 28, 2021 at 8:29 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(July 23, 2021 at 10:13 am)WinterHold Wrote: Today is "13 Dul Hijjah"; which is Friday, 23 July 2021: the last and final day of the 6 days Hajj Pilgrimage, a cornerstone of the 5 pillars of Islam, a Muslim is supposed to do the Hajj once in a lifetime only.

Through the 6 days of the journey, those who go should wear the "Ihram", and practice the following verse to the letter:




In the 6th day of the journey though, Muslims should act "the stoning of Satan", AKA "رمي الجمرات":


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj#Last_..._al-Hijjah


[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj#cite_note-14][/url]
And that's that. 

More verses from the Quran:



`

You do know I hope, that the walking around that meteorite far predated Islam. They used to worship hundreds of gods in the Kaaba, including the 3 divine daughters which originally were Allah's daughters, in the now removed, Satanic Verses. It was but one of many many cultural practices, ideas, myths, concepts and literary artifacts they took from the culture which invented Islam. 
Even the Shiite / Sunny conflict was basically a cultural war long before the made up conflict Muslims pretend it originated from.   
Almost nothing in Islam is original. Even the god developed directly from the Arabic moon-god, al-Illah, (also known as the god named "Sin" in the Bible, whom the Hebrews were told again and again to stop worshipping, .... in that sense Islam is not an "Abrahamic" religion, as the gods are different, although they both do revere Abraham as a prophet).

Among the elements in the Quran they stole, (actually in academia, it's known as "syncretism" or "borrowing", but it's certainly not original),from other sources are:

1. Moses and the Fish, (came from Babylon/Ugarit/the El myths),
2. Solomon listening to the ants, common fairy tales, existing all over the Ancient Near East,
3. Jinns, (genies) working for Solomon, both common fairy tales, existing all over the Ancient Near East,
4. Mary in the temple, (stolen from one of the proto gospels),
5. Jesus talking in the crib, (from the known Proto Gospel after Jacob)
6. The Egyptian child stories, (from the Arab Child Gospel, and The Thomas' Child Gospel), both just made up fairy stories.
7. Jesus making birds from clay, (known source, .."The Child Gospel after Thomas" vs 1-4),
8. Mary and the Palm, was taken from the Proto Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 20.
9. Mo's Night Journey to Heaven, taken from either the Hebrew Merebah, or the well known Gnostic "Enoc's Journey to Heaven", which is identical to to Ibn Ishaq’s story after Abu Said al-Chudri)
10. The Sleepers in the Cave, straight from the fairy story from Ephesus, (Mo got the dates wrong, but the story is right),
11. Alexander the Great, (Surah 18), (straight plagiarism), AND there was NO place in the world with enough iron blocks to close off a whole valley in 330 BC.
12. The myth about Ad. Straight from Arab folk tales.
13. Thamud – same as 12.
14. Median – copied from Arab folk tales.

Trolling is not allowed and copy-pasting arguments of others from other forums is also not allowed:

https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/sho...#pid179476

I have no time to feed trolls and vermin.

https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/1...t-page-64/

Another link proving the spammy behavior.

Looks like a gang of atheist trolls with a grudge on Islam. I bet this guy is a sock.
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#30
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.
(July 28, 2021 at 8:50 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(July 28, 2021 at 8:29 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: You do know I hope, that the walking around that meteorite far predated Islam. They used to worship hundreds of gods in the Kaaba, including the 3 divine daughters which originally were Allah's daughters, in the now removed, Satanic Verses. It was but one of many many cultural practices, ideas, myths, concepts and literary artifacts they took from the culture which invented Islam. 
Even the Shiite / Sunny conflict was basically a cultural war long before the made up conflict Muslims pretend it originated from.   
Almost nothing in Islam is original. Even the god developed directly from the Arabic moon-god, al-Illah, (also known as the god named "Sin" in the Bible, whom the Hebrews were told again and again to stop worshipping, .... in that sense Islam is not an "Abrahamic" religion, as the gods are different, although they both do revere Abraham as a prophet).

Among the elements in the Quran they stole, (actually in academia, it's known as "syncretism" or "borrowing", but it's certainly not original),from other sources are:

1. Moses and the Fish, (came from Babylon/Ugarit/the El myths),
2. Solomon listening to the ants, common fairy tales, existing all over the Ancient Near East,
3. Jinns, (genies) working for Solomon, both common fairy tales, existing all over the Ancient Near East,
4. Mary in the temple, (stolen from one of the proto gospels),
5. Jesus talking in the crib, (from the known Proto Gospel after Jacob)
6. The Egyptian child stories, (from the Arab Child Gospel, and The Thomas' Child Gospel), both just made up fairy stories.
7. Jesus making birds from clay, (known source, .."The Child Gospel after Thomas" vs 1-4),
8. Mary and the Palm, was taken from the Proto Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 20.
9. Mo's Night Journey to Heaven, taken from either the Hebrew Merebah, or the well known Gnostic "Enoc's Journey to Heaven", which is identical to to Ibn Ishaq’s story after Abu Said al-Chudri)
10. The Sleepers in the Cave, straight from the fairy story from Ephesus, (Mo got the dates wrong, but the story is right),
11. Alexander the Great, (Surah 18), (straight plagiarism), AND there was NO place in the world with enough iron blocks to close off a whole valley in 330 BC.
12. The myth about Ad. Straight from Arab folk tales.
13. Thamud – same as 12.
14. Median – copied from Arab folk tales.

Trolling is not allowed and copy-pasting arguments of others from other forums is also not allowed:

https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/sho...#pid179476

I have no time to feed trolls and vermin.

https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/1...t-page-64/

Another link proving the spammy behavior.

Looks like a gang of atheist trolls with a grudge on Islam. I bet this guy is a sock.

I assure you Bucky is not a sock or a troll.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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