Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: January 20, 2022, 12:51 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
#11
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 10:56 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The existence of counterfiet money isnt proof that real money doesnt exist.

That is true, but, my bank can verify that which is real from that which is counterfeit.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#12
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
Atheism isnt completely sane either. The levels of lust, greed, anger is often animalistic and savage.
[Image: keep-calm-and-praise-the-sun.jpg]
Reply
#13
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 11:06 am)purplepurpose Wrote: Atheism isnt completely sane either. The levels of lust, greed, anger is often animalistic and savage.

None of that has anything to do with atheism.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#14
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 11:10 am)Jehanne Wrote:
(September 1, 2021 at 11:06 am)purplepurpose Wrote: Atheism isnt completely sane either. The levels of lust, greed, anger is often animalistic and savage.

None of that has anything to do with atheism.

Your right. I meant that human nature at its pure, without religion isn't always sane.
[Image: keep-calm-and-praise-the-sun.jpg]
Reply
#15
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 11:12 am)purplepurpose Wrote:
(September 1, 2021 at 11:10 am)Jehanne Wrote: None of that has anything to do with atheism.

Your right. I meant that human nature at its pure, without religion isn't always sane.

At best your observation is that religion is useful, which, of course, does not make it true.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#16
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 11:02 am)Jehanne Wrote:
(September 1, 2021 at 10:56 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The existence of counterfiet money isnt proof that real money doesnt exist.

That is true, but, my bank can verify that which is real from that which is counterfeit.

[Image: Pan2.jpg]
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
Reply
#17
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 10:56 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The existence of counterfiet money isnt proof that real money doesnt exist.

I think you misunderstand the objection. If one replaces real causes with an epiphenomenal god, then all one is doing is engaging in pointless metaphysics. Yes this fit of epilepsy could be caused by god, and gravity could be the effect of an omnipotent machine projecting force throughout the universe, but why would you? If you replace one cause with God then you can replace them all. The principle of insufficient reason will cut down all such moves. If you can replace them all, then "God" just becomes a new name for nature, and your attempt to explain the original phenomenon turns out to be nothing more than bullshit semantics. It's the same problem with Berkeley's argument for God; all you're doing is insisting on calling nature God for Reasons[TM].
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
Reply
#18
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 11:02 am)Jehanne Wrote:
(September 1, 2021 at 10:56 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The existence of counterfiet money isnt proof that real money doesnt exist.

That is true, but, my bank can verify that which is real from that which is counterfeit.

IMO a reasonable person could conclude that the visionary experiences of people afflicted by specific medical disorders are inauthentic without jumping to the conclusion that all visionary experiences are inauthentic because those experiences can be artificially stimulated.
<insert profound quote here>
Reply
#19
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 9:56 am)Jehanne Wrote: can be generated artificially
snipped for brevity

(September 1, 2021 at 10:56 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The existence of counterfiet money isnt proof that real money doesnt exist

Both sets - the lab observed and the god alleged - are artificial, both sets are counterfeit, regardless of whether a god or a researcher touched them.  Brain states can be induced, and the inducement of these states produces effects consistent with reported experience.  

No one trying to explain how these experiences occur with this sort of research is positing that the experiences don't exist.  They're trying to work out how they do exist.

In direct equivalence, the observance of induced brain states isn't proof that uninduced brain states don't exist, sure...but what would that have to do with brain states induced by gods?

You're up there talking about inauthentic experiences..inauthentic to what? Are they not having the reported experiences? Are you using inauthentic as shorthand for "not induced by gods"...or? Artificial would include, by definition, any artifice of any gods...such as a god making them see something, or feel something.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
Reply
#20
RE: Temporal lobe epilepsy & religious experience.
(September 1, 2021 at 11:17 am)Angrboda Wrote:
(September 1, 2021 at 10:56 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The existence of counterfiet money isnt proof that real money doesnt exist.

I think you misunderstand the objection.  If one replaces real causes with an epiphenomenal god, then all one is doing is engaging in pointless metaphysics.  Yes this fit of epilepsy could be caused by god, and gravity could be the effect of an omnipotent machine projecting force throughout the universe, but why would you?  If you replace one cause with God then you can replace them all.  The principle of insufficient reason will cut down all such moves.   If you can replace them all, then "God" just becomes a new name for nature, and your attempt to explain the original phenomenon turns out to be nothing more than bullshit semantics.  It's the same problem with Berkeley's argument for God; all you're doing is insisting on calling nature God for Reasons[TM].

No. I was not suggesting that epilesy was a means by which any god communes. I am saying that one experience can be authentic and another inauthentic depending on the chain of events that brought* it into being. By way of analogy, the perfect forgery of a Vermeer painting can never be an authentic Vermeer.

<continued>

So for example there is Nun Anne and Matrix Jane. Nun Anne has lived a life of Catholic devotion. Anne has a prayerful brain-state prior to brain-state V (for visionary). Matrix Jane is connected an electro-helmet. Jane has any random brain-state prior to the induction of brain-state V. I contend that the experience of Nun Anne can be deemed likely authentic and the experience of Matrix Jane as clearly inauthentic based on observable characteristics of both Anne and Jane.

*Interesting how it seems so intuitive to use teleological language!
<insert profound quote here>
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Theists, please describe how you experience your god Mathilda 161 10162 June 15, 2018 at 9:37 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  I had a religious experience the other night Mathilda 34 3954 November 22, 2017 at 9:44 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Personal experience says religious folks are more prone to mental diseases ErGingerbreadMandude 20 5881 August 9, 2017 at 11:11 am
Last Post: Astonished
  My experience in a Moon church/organization (korean religion) Macoleco 20 5508 May 20, 2017 at 1:01 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  Near death experience of Howard Storm scoobysnack 548 55589 October 28, 2016 at 11:00 pm
Last Post: TheoneandonlytrueGod
  Doing a big poo is a Religious experience FreeTony 8 3501 February 15, 2014 at 4:31 pm
Last Post: StuW
  Religious moderates enable religious extremists worldslaziestbusker 82 29088 October 24, 2013 at 8:03 pm
Last Post: Optimistic Mysanthrope
  Apologist Matt Slick's atheist daughter tells of her experience growing up Fidel_Castronaut 20 7874 July 22, 2013 at 7:51 pm
Last Post: Tonus
  Disturbed Theist Calls The Atheist Experience Cosmic Ape 117 42369 April 10, 2013 at 2:43 am
Last Post: Ryantology
  A doctor's experience with the afterlife TaraJo 13 4838 October 24, 2012 at 1:40 am
Last Post: Angrboda



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)