The Sects of Atheism

[LadyForCamus]

Right. Are ghosts and souls gods?


An atheist can literally have any opinion except that some sort of deity really exists. A theist can literally have any opinion except that no sort of deity really exists.

The answers for the existence of souls and afterlife come from religious or god-believing groups and your definition of a dictionary atheist “lack of belief in gods” doesn’t allow you to have an opinion on the matter. Unless you switch to another atheist sect.

Why do you think that the existence of an afterlife is dependent on the existence of gods, or vise versa?

[Ahriman]

If someone doesn't believe in gods, why would they believe in any other supernatural thing?

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

If someone doesn't believe in gods, why would they believe in any other supernatural thing?

Because maybe some people do think that pixies are magical? that they inspire magic.

That elves are marvelous? Because they perform marvels.

That the Fae are wonderful? They inspire wonder.

The Sidhe are glamorous? Wrapped as they are within their glamour.

That the Tuatha De Dannan are terrific? Because they instill terror.

Perhaps?

[Ahriman]

At work.

If someone doesn't believe in gods, why would they believe in any other supernatural thing?

Because maybe some people do think that pixies are magical? that they inspire magic.

That elves are marvelous? Because they perform marvels.

That the Fae are wonderful? They inspire wonder.

The Sidhe are glamorous? Wrapped as they are within their glamour.

That the Tuatha De Dannan are terrific? Because they instill terror.

 Perhaps?

 

Yeah.......all of those things could be considered gods.

[arewethereyet]

I think we have found the perfect pairing...Ahriman and Gary.

[GaryAnderson]

Wow there are so many answers here and I’ll do my best to respond to you all but soon I have to make a couple of Zoom work-related calls which I can’t skip

My denomination has the answers to these questions and says that they exist. Our definitions allow us to have this position because we believe and atheists don’t.

Good for you and your denomination. It does not mean that I or other atheists need to consider those answers correct. Have you ever considered that your denominations answers might be wrong?

Would you like to tell us your denomination/sect or should we guess?

Of course. My domination could be wrong. The point here is the word “belief” which separates and atheist from a theist. The point is also so that we stay true to our definitions.
My denomination would be East Orthodox which is part of Christianity. 

How is this consistent with “lack of belief in Gods”? Souls and afterlife are always linked to one God or another.

In your belief system, perhaps.  There's really nothing else to say on the matter because it's a trivial fact easily discernable by the most shallow investigation of peoples beliefs.  Or even the simple definition of the term, which you claimed to refer to.

Atheists don't believe in gods.  If someone tells you that they're an atheist, you have the answer to that one question.  You won't know whether they believe in chakras or karma or ghosts or wizards and fairies...you won't even know if they're religious...unless you ask about those things.

If they believe in other spiritual things which are god-linked than they’re not atheists in the truest sense of the word. Maybe  they’re agnostic atheists. 

The definition of "atheism" should be broadened to include a lack of belief in supernatural things period, not just gods. I mean, why stop at gods.

I ran a poll here asking the question of whether atheism required disbelief in the supernatural.  Of those that answered, only 15% said yes.

Thank you for telling me that. So you’ve confirmed the existence of one sect to be 15%.

Only ONE sect of atheists can’t have an opinion of the souls or afterlife, the sect with aligns with the dictionary definition of an atheist. The other sects can. Like agnostic atheists or the meat machines group.

They ALL fit the dictionary defintion of atheist and they can ALL have opinions on other topics.

That ONE sect can’t. Every other sect can. 

Wrong again.   In your belief system, gods are immaterial.  This is not true and has never been true of all gods.  It wasn't even true of the one you believe in until the rise of contemporary christianity as a syncretic tradition borrowing from classical (read: pagan) greek philosophy through it's capture of the roman state.

There are absolute shitloads of atheists who believe in the immaterial, and shitloads of atheists who hold beliefs about any number of other things as well.  Atheism is about belief in gods, again.

Do you believe that there is no god?  Then why do you get to have an opinion of atheism, Gary?

I don’t understand what you’re saying here and you’re confusing me a bit. Atheism is about belief in Gods?

The answers for the existence of souls and afterlife come from religious or god-believing groups and your definition of a dictionary atheist “lack of belief in gods” doesn’t allow you to have an opinion on the matter. Unless you switch to another atheist sect.

Nothing in the definition that precludes any ideas from religion or god-believing groups except the idea that a god is real.

Full disclosure: I'm an open atheist and a Unitarian Universalist. I don't see why I should kick an idea to the curb solely because it comes from a religion.

In other words: The 'not allowed to have an an opinion' thing? That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Well you have to categorize yourself clearly because one group is not allowed to have an opinion on the questions posted. 
It sounds to me you’re an agnostic atheist. 

Do a quick google search man, it says : “ disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.”

Which neither says nor implies anything about souls or an afterlife. Atheists are defined by one and only one disbelief. What else they don’t believe in, do believe in, or don’t know has no bearing on atheism.

Boru

But souls and the afterlife are always linked to different Gods and religions which is something that the definition of atheism doesn’t allow. 
So maybe you’re an agnostic atheist?

You can’t have an opinion on them unless you’re an agnostic atheist for example. Because souls and afterlife are always … always linked to one God or another in different parts of the world.

The fact that they are linked together for some other people doesn't mean that they are or need to be linked together for a specific atheist.  

Since they don't need to be linked for an atheist, you are wrong to insist that an atheist can't have an opinion on them.

You are effectively arguing that one person is bound by what another person believes; that's simply not the case.

Well then don’t describe yourself as an atheist. Maybe agonist atheist?

What’s common is belief. Simply belief in the immaterial which is the initial step in the search for God. Your definitions Don’t allow for belief.

There's nothing in the definition of 'atheist' that would keep one from believing in something supernatural as long as it's not a god.

This would make your position worse.

What do you think Ahriman's position is?

These two questions I asked, are related to different Gods in different belief systems.
I don’t know what Aheiman’s position is.

Gary, why haven't you answered these basic questions ?

You said you believe in a god, Jesus specifically.
Why do you believe ?

What justification do you have for your belief ?

How do you define your god ?
What are it's attributes and how did you determine that it has those attributes ?

What is a soul ?
What is an after life ?

The ancient Egyptians thought that the soul of a person was composed of nine different parts with very distinct aspects. They firmly believed that the human soul consisted of nine main parts: Ren, Ba, Ka, Shuyet and Jb, Akh, Sahu, Khat, and Sechem.

Feel free to look up the meaning to each part of the soul as believed by ancient Egyptians.

If you believe in an after life, do you also believe in a life before this one ? And perhaps a life before that one ? Constant reincarnation without end.

So again I ask, what do you believe and more importantly, why ?

I will answer these another time. Someone else asked but I’ll open another thread “Why believe” where atheists can observe from the windows since you can’t believe .

I think it mostly has to do with confusing things common to being contemporary westerners for being common to atheists - like not believing in the supernatural..which is a common belief even for western god botherers.  The arc of western culture over the past few centuries has been the rejection of superstitions (whether we're actually doing a good job of that..well..jury's out).

Yeah exactly. Confusion is another one of my points here. 
 

The answers for the existence of souls and afterlife come from religious or god-believing groups and your definition of a dictionary atheist “lack of belief in gods” doesn’t allow you to have an opinion on the matter. Unless you switch to another atheist sect.

Why do you think that the existence of an afterlife is dependent on the existence of gods, or vise versa?

Because the answers to these questions come from religion or different groups who believe in different gods.

[Ahriman]

I think we have found the perfect pairing...Ahriman and Gary.

Nah I don't want anything to do with him.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Because maybe some people do think that pixies are magical? that they inspire magic.

That elves are marvelous? Because they perform marvels.

That the Fae are wonderful? They inspire wonder.

The Sidhe are glamorous? Wrapped as they are within their glamour.

That the Tuatha De Dannan are terrific? Because they instill terror.

 Perhaps?

 

Yeah.......all of those things could be considered gods.

Quite true.

Some beliefs can be quite bad.

It's only the worshippers who keep saying their dietys are 'Nice'.

[GaryAnderson]

If someone doesn't believe in gods, why would they believe in any other supernatural thing?

Because they like to believe in things which are not classified as God.
You see atheists are very picky about definitions when it suits them and also love to be very vague when it suits them.

[Nay_Sayer]

You seem to be under the impression that views on gods necessarily entails specific views on souls and the afterlife.  They do not.  I can be an atheist and believe in the existence of souls and an afterlife.  Some belief systems about gods assume things about gods, souls, and the afterlife.  Belief in the Christian god entails beliefs about souls and the afterlife, but atheism isn't about the Christian god alone.  Atheism in general isn't one of those belief systems and says nothing about souls and the afterlife.

By the way, dictionaries disagree on proper usage, but in general only report how people use a word; they really have no authority to dictate how a word should be used.

You seem to be under the impression that Atheism is a loosely defined word and so far I’ve discovered 3 sects here which I will explain in the end with some more sects that made the news in an official church.
Do you guys even know what you stand for and what you oppose?
The questions I’m asking relate specifically to religions (Buddhism included) and your definitions are “a lack of belief in gods).
So where are you in this spectrum and the questions I mentioned?

Devout pastafarian.

The only way to the great beyond is through FSM.  Obviously we have souls if we didn't then who are all those chicken soup books for?

Cheers. I like your laid back attitude…. For now.

---

Just as a note: an atheist CAN believe in souls and/or an afterlife, it's unusual among Western atheists, but I have met Buddhists who don't believe in any gods but do believe in reincarnation. I've met atheists who believe in ghosts as well. There just as much an atheist as I am, since they don't believe any deific beings are actually real.

If an “atheist” believes this than they’re not atheists.

To the OP: Self-reports about why people believe what they do can be interesting but not very instructive. Maybe you could just hang out for a while and get a sense of who everyone is personally and become part of the community.

You know if we had absolute evidence on these existential questions we wouldn’t be having this convo and myself and most of the world would be atheist or theist depending on what the absolute evidence says. This is basically an eternal human discussion.

One can disagree without being disagreeable. Since you’ve been snarky and condescending since your first intro post, this doesn’t seem to be a skill you’ve mastered.

Boru

But aren’t most posts here snarky and condescending in regards to religion? I mean I was browsing yesterday and today and saw some gems.
I’m not upset with all that. It’s pretty common. So the way I communicate is basically more direct and a direct response to other posts which can be condescending or assuming or generalizing intentions.

Sounds ominous