[split] derail from nuclear reactor topic

[Minimalist]

What have they done? Changed the definition of 'safe' so they can send people in to fix it...

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_19.html

Apparently the land is worth more than the people.

That's pretty much the equation of the ruling elites everywhere. I thought you knew that?

[theVOID]

What have they done? Changed the definition of 'safe' so they can send people in to fix it...

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_19.html

Apparently the land is worth more than the people.

That's pretty much the equation of the ruling elites everywhere. I thought you knew that?

Your socialist buddies in the Japanese government?

All elites suck, it's the ones with a police force that worry me the most.

[Minimalist]

No, its the ones who buy off the police that worry me.

The government is far less a threat than you corporate heroes.

[theVOID]

Corporates don't buy off police, they buy off politicians who pass laws that the police follow, want to solve the problem? Stop politicians from having so much power, take the decisions right out of their greased up palms and give it back to people and local bodies.

Heroes? Now I know you've got no fucking idea what my position is, you're too busy flaming straw men to pay attention.

[Minimalist]

Corporates don't buy off police, they buy off politicians who pass laws that the police follow, want to solve the problem? Stop politicians from having so much power, take the decisions right out of their greased up palms and give it back to people and local bodies.

Heroes? Now I know you've got no fucking idea what my position is, you're too busy flaming straw men to pay attention.

If you don't want the motherfuckers reined in you are part of the problem, Void. Rich cocksuckers have ruined ( I don't think it is possible to reverse at this point ) America with their market based bullshit which is nothing but a scam for letting them steal whatever the fuck they want.

If you are a rich cocksucker, I apologize because then you are doing what is right for your class.

If not, you need to figure out that they are not on the same side as you.

[theVOID]

If you don't want the motherfuckers reined in you are part of the problem, Void. Rich cocksuckers have ruined ( I don't think it is possible to reverse at this point ) America with their market based bullshit which is nothing but a scam for letting them steal whatever the fuck they want.

If they use force, fraud or coercion then yeah, arrest them like any other criminal, if they haven't done that then they're free to do whatever the fuck they like. They aren't obligated to give you shit and you shouldn't expect them to, you are entitled to your own productivity, not someone elses and not some total share of productivity.

Free markets are a scam? Bullshit. In what way is people agreeing to trade goods and services a scam? The only scam is politicians who get elected to be fair and then go and give businesses unfair advantages in the market which gives them power over their opposition both domestically and internationally and THAT hurts the consumers.

And you think your life is getting worse because of free markets? That's not possible, you don't have free markets, you've got a dog and pony show with two parties who use their stupid amount of ever increasing power to cater to the people who pay their campaign bills, two parties who take more and more power away from the people and give it to corporations, they don't fucking help, they hurt.

And rich people getting richer hasn't had anywhere near as much of an impact as inflation causing prices to rise and savings to diminish. And so fucking what if the rich get richer? As long as they do it justly then your having less is of absolutely no consequence. Equality is about opportunity and not outcome, just like some people are better at sport and art some are better at seizing opportunity and some are just lucky, that someone does better than you doesn't make it wrong and it doesn't mean you should get some of it.

If you are a rich cocksucker, I apologize because then you are doing what is right for your class.

If not, you need to figure out that they are not on the same side as you.

There are no sides, there are people trying to make the most they can out of the opportunities they have. The role of government is to punish people who use force, fraud or coercion to achieve it, not to take from the people who succeed and give it to those who do not.

I'm not Rich, that's not an excuse to take from people who are. It's up to me to make the most of the opportunities get and hope I have some luck.

[Minimalist]

There are no sides

That's where you are wrong, Void.

BTW, the last thing these rich cocksuckers want are "free markets." The fuck each other (and us ) in ever more grandiose schemes to manipulate those markets for their benefit. That is where government comes in....when it too has not been compromised by the money that these scumbags generate.

Your attachment to this idea is almost religious. You speak of "markets" the way Frodo speaks of his fucking god. God/markets can do no wrong because whatever god/markets do is good. And neither of you have fuckall for evidence that your respective manias actually work.

[theVOID]

BTW, the last thing these rich cocksuckers want are "free markets."

That is EXACTLY why we need them. Corporations do not want free markets, they want markets set up in their favor while being propped up by taxpayers. They want corporatism, the two are completely contrary positions.

The fuck each other (and us ) in ever more grandiose schemes to manipulate those markets for their benefit.

What manipulations can they get under the free market? None. They can agree to terms and conditions with other consenting parties and that's it, if they engage in activities that are not agreed upon then they are breaking the law, arrest them and fine them or put them in prison.

You wonder why businesses get billion dollar subsidies, tax breaks, limited liabilities, tariffs imposed on competitors, bailouts and exclusive contracts? They cannot do that by themselves in any way, shape or form. They NEED government to get their cushy conditions and they GIVE it to them because they're "growing the economy".

That is where government comes in....when it too has not been compromised by the money that these scumbags generate.

The only thing the government needs to do is police the markets, make sure that anyone who uses force, fraud, coercion or neglects their responsibilities to their employees and consumers is punished, they DO NOT need to offer subsidies or bailouts etc.

Your attachment to this idea is almost religious. You speak of "markets" the way Frodo speaks of his fucking god. God/markets can do no wrong because whatever god/markets do is good. And neither of you have fuckall for evidence that your respective manias actually work.

Free markets are FAIR. Nobody gets a government backed advantage, no companies get taxpayer money, failed companies aren't bailed out and taxpayers don't pick up the bill. You don't plunge the nation into debt so businesses can get by easier. You own ALL of your responsibilities and liabilities.

Markets aren't perfect, they aren't supposed to provide us all with an equal outcome, they provide everyone with an equal opportunity and they succeed or fail based on their own merits.

And here you are championing Keynsian economics that do what? Bail out multi-billion dollar companies, give subsidies to tobacco companies, restrict unions on 'economic' grounds, impose taxes on competitors, hand out exclusive contract and ALL at the expense of the taxpayer who receives FUCK ALL benefit from it.

Keynesianism is the alternative, it's an epic failure, all the nations who got involved heavily from the 60's onwards are now in a ton of debt and are things more even? No, the rich have been given conditions and backing that allows them to accumulate wealth far faster than they could on their own.

[leo-rcc]

I've split the derail to politics.