What's wrong with Woke

[Mister Agenda]

A seemingly neutral phrase like 'colored people' that once was acceptable to pretty much everyone can become offensive over time. You can say the same thing about other words or phrases that once were used to describe people of color. The process involves other words or phrases becoming popular and more preferred by people of color until it starts to be noticeable that the people 'not of color' who continue to use the old terms are largely insensitve, or at least somewhat clueless, to what the people being described prefer to called. Eventually it starts to feel kind of insulting, and people not members of the described group start to be viewed as intending insult when the old term is well past its expiration date.

[Spongebob]

BTW, "people of color" and "colored people" are grammatically the same, but don't actually refer to the same group of people. "colored people" was used to refer to people of African decent only, unless my memory is flawed. "People of color" refers to African, Latino, and other groups; sort of a catch-all for non-white people.

Interestingly, the terms "white people" and "Caucasian" have their own rather inconsistent and dubious origins. One example, many Latinos do consider themselves to be "white". Personally, I'm rather tired of the use of racial terms and would prefer they just vanish from our vocabulary, but then there are a lot of cultural elements woven into race as well and that sort of anchors them in our language.

[Ranjr]

If you've ever seen "Colored" section, whether it's a restroom, fountain, or theater seating, and you care enough to be woke to it, it's easy to understand why a different term is needed.

[Spongebob]

If you've ever seen "Colored" section, whether it's a restroom, fountain, or theater seating, and you care enough to be woke to it, it's easy to understand why a different term is needed.

I grew up in the deep south where black people were still commonly referred to by the "N" word when they were not around (and sometimes when they were) and "colored" even when they were around.  There were still "colored" signs around although most things were ostensibly integrated.  But there were still plenty of places that were off limits, including neighborhoods.  There were two country clubs in town where black people were not welcome unless they were working there.  There was even a "white" public pool and a "black" public pool and I was always told that's they way "they" liked it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is this going to turn into one of those "why do people think I'm racist just because I say the shit racists say" threads?

[Spongebob]

Is this going to turn into one of those "why do people think I'm racist just because I say the shit racists say" threads?

I would never do that.  I'm just asking for ideas.

[vulcanlogician]

I tend to like wokeism concerning its constituent theories, the activism it inspires, and the changes it wants to see in the world.

But I do have some criticisms: two that I'll list here.

The first concerns a philosophical matter. There is an overemphasis on personal accountability given that a large number of theories "wokeism" draws from rely on Marx's model for historical determinism. Now, people have come up for defenses of this, namely along the lines of revisionism. But I'm not a revisionist, so I tend to reject those defenses.

The second criticism has to do with a blurring of two separate enterprises. Street-level activism and internet loudmouthing. When it comes to BLM or any other woke-adjacent movement, I like what the movement stands for. I agree with its goals. And I support street-level action to attain those goals. But at the same time, none of these has to do with with internet cliques or internet cultures.

Because we live much of our social lives on the internet, some of this can't be avoided. (And plenty of internet activism is a worthwhile endeavor; I'm not trying to paint it all with the same brush.) But there is a difference between large numbers of people who decide to "cancel" a comedian with a stroke of a keyboard key, and the work people do when they show up for a BLM protest.

Inasmuch as the second item is a conflation that conservatives tend to make, then wokeism is fine in that regard. But that's my issue. Even woke supporters can get confused about how important it is to cancel a comedian. There may be good reason to cancel a comedian. But that sort of thing will never hold a candle to how important it is to resist brutal policing. My fear is that a snowball effect is occurring where "dress up and play anarchist" folks will become the majority of woke supporters and will steer the movement according to what they think deserves priority. No. The woke movement should consist mostly of genuine activists. Hangers on can help. But they ought not steer the ship.

This isn't just something I'm pulling out of my ass. Cornel West has long been involved in leftist activism and worries about the waning "substance" he sees in the woke movement.

It's not like it's a problem the woke movement can't address. More emphasis on street-level activism and less emphasis on popular twitter feeds may send the flakes a-flying. But I would like to see the problem addressed before it gets out of hand.

[LadyForCamus]

Is this going to turn into one of those "why do people think I'm racist just because I say the shit racists say" threads?

What else could it possibly turn into? You should know this by now. 😛

[Ranjr]

Now kids, just because Uncle Bob says those things doesn't mean he's racist.  He has a lot of black friends.

[Irreligious Atheist]

A seemingly neutral phrase like 'colored people' that once was acceptable to pretty much everyone can become offensive over time. You can say the same thing about other words or phrases that once were used to describe people of color. The process involves other words or phrases becoming popular and more preferred by people of color until it starts to be noticeable that the people 'not of color' who continue to use the old terms are largely insensitve, or at least somewhat clueless, to what the people being described prefer to called. Eventually it starts to feel kind of insulting, and people not members of the described group start to be viewed as intending insult when the old term is well past its expiration date.

Yes, and the term "people of colour" is kind of starting to become disfavoured too, and starting to become replaced with "BIPOC", because many black people don't want to be bunched together with 'people of colour' like Asians, who have great privilege in the West. Although black people still talk about CPT, which means coloured people time, so they don't seem to have an issue with the term coloured people in that specific instance at least.