Posts: 3774
Threads: 41
Joined: August 15, 2021
Reputation:
7
A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 8:17 pm
Many people seem to think, that holding opinions/beliefs etc., is important/necessary, however, it doesn't really matter what kind of opinion/belief you hold, when it comes to certain vital things, such as: what god (any god) thinks of you, what kind of person you are, how much suffering you can endure, etc. There are more than just these three, but for the sake of brevity, let's examine just these three issues.
"what god (any god) thinks of you"
--If there ever was, is now, or ever will be, any kind of higher power (good or evil) that influences your life in a significant way, it would be important to know where you stand with such a higher power. In the worst case scenario, it's important to know this information because, in the worst case scenario, god would not care about you very much (or at all) and so god would not help you when you asked for help, under any circumstances, and knowing this about god, would be important because, if you knew god would not help you no matter what you said or did, you wouldn't waste any more time/energy on praying/doing rituals/reading holy texts/going to church etc., and that time/energy could then be used in more productive ways. In the best case scenario, god would care about you a lot, and so, even if you did not pray/do rituals/read holy texts/go to church etc., god would still help you, and even if god was evil, it wouldn't matter much, because you would naturally figure, "If god is helping me, I don't really care if god is evil."
"what kind of person you are"
--Knowing your real self, is important, because when you know who you really are, you can express yourself more freely (than if you don't know who you are), and some suffering in life, can be mitigated, by expressing yourself.
"how much suffering you can endure"
--Knowing how much pain/suffering/boredom you can endure, is very important, because when you know this information, you will be less likely to put yourself in an intolerable situtaiton (whether that situation is some kind of sexual activity, or sports/fitness related activities, or consuming drugs, or simply having to wait around for something to happen, such as at a doctor's office)
"Imagination, life is your creation"
Posts: 32990
Threads: 1412
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 8:21 pm
Was hoping for a synoptic conclusion.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 28307
Threads: 522
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 8:39 pm
Stigmata while typing?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Posts: 67189
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 8:52 pm
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2022 at 8:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I think something similar. The belief in gods, particularly.... is unimportant... even to the religions ostensibly based on belief in gods. Higher powers is an ambiguous term, and many people who don't believe in gods believe in a great many higher powers upon which they premise normative statements about life which are the traditional fault line between god botherers and atheists.
An atheist and a theist get into a discussion bout their respective beliefs in right and wrong..and, firstly, they don't disagree all that much. Secondly, zeroing out a god or adding a god doesn't reduce any disagreement or build any agreement between the two. What kind of person you are and how much suffering you can endure are god nuetral questions, and the only god question is itself explicitly reduced to labels, rather than concept. Know what any standard you hold to says about you.
How many of our weird christian friends see nothing wrong with abortion, for example, beyond what an existent god feels about it....? I suspect the answer approaches or actually is zero.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 46102
Threads: 538
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 8:52 pm
It’s in colour, so it must be frightfully important stuff.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 4470
Threads: 13
Joined: September 27, 2018
Reputation:
17
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 9:07 pm
(February 19, 2022 at 8:17 pm)Ahriman Wrote: "what kind of person you are"
--Knowing your real self, is important, because when you know who you really are, you can express yourself more freely (than if you don't know who you are), and some suffering in life, can be mitigated, by expressing yourself.
Interesting questions, and different from what we usually get around here, so thank you for posting these.
The first one is the most difficult, so I will skip it at least for now.
Knowing oneself and expressing oneself are intimately related, I think. And I agree that expression can be very helpful.
There is an old joke: "How do I know what I think until I hear what I say?" And this is kind of the basis of all talk therapy. What the therapist says isn't important; what I hear myself say to the therapist is what counts. I say something that seems obvious, and he raises an eyebrow and says "really?" and I think "god, I really believe that don't I? What the hell?" It can be devastating.
I see it as dialectic. You make something as self expression, and this "gives to airy nothing a local habitation and a name." It makes a concrete, visible touchstone of your state of mind. This then becomes a rung on a ladder, onto which you can step to see a little further.
Quote:"how much suffering you can endure"
--Knowing how much pain/suffering/boredom you can endure, is very important, because when you know this information, you will be less likely to put yourself in an intolerable situtaiton (whether that situation is some kind of sexual activity, or sports/fitness related activities, or consuming drugs, or simply having to wait around for something to happen, such as at a doctor's office)
Related to the other question, above. Knowing oneself means knowing one's limits. What to avoid, who to put on ignore.
The psychoanalyst Adam Phillips writes wonderfully about this stuff. His latest book is about giving up, and how we see that as a failure, but in fact it may be a very positive thing.
Do you have any real-life examples you are willing to let us know about?
Posts: 67189
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 9:15 pm
When Ahris done embarrassing itself I'll pick that one up. I don't think that people can make it into any state of cognizant adulthood without grappling with that issue.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 3774
Threads: 41
Joined: August 15, 2021
Reputation:
7
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 9:31 pm
(February 19, 2022 at 9:15 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: When Ahris done embarrassing itself I'll pick that one up. I don't think that people can make it into any state of cognizant adulthood without grappling with that issue. ????
"Imagination, life is your creation"
Posts: 16939
Threads: 461
Joined: March 29, 2015
Reputation:
30
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 9:58 pm
(February 19, 2022 at 8:17 pm)Ahriman Wrote: "what god (any god) thinks of you"
Usually, people in religions like Christianity and Islam end up at a point where homosexuals are afraid that their god will punish them but racists are not.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
Posts: 67189
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: A different perspective
February 19, 2022 at 10:01 pm
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2022 at 10:02 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
For good reason. Theism has been a traditionally ethnocentric enterprise with strong provisions on what it means to have an acceptable sexuality.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
|