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[Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
#51
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 16, 2022 at 10:47 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(April 16, 2022 at 4:54 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That's the immense disappointment of islam in a nutshell.  Here was this religion that could have left more space for legitimate discovery.  

Failed.

I would say: "here are the followers of Islam shocked by the Mongol sack of Baghdad and the Islamic empire; having 600 years of scientific discoveries drowned in the Euphrates; having their women, men, children and loved ones ending up butchered and raped:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

Muslims never woke up from that shock until today.

This is just bullshit; ever hear of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

I can't believe that you are spreading patently disinformation on this board.
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#52
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 16, 2022 at 10:47 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(April 16, 2022 at 4:54 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That's the immense disappointment of islam in a nutshell.  Here was this religion that could have left more space for legitimate discovery.  

Failed.

I would say: "here are the followers of Islam shocked by the Mongol sack of Baghdad and the Islamic empire; having 600 years of scientific discoveries drowned in the Euphrates; having their women, men, children and loved ones ending up butchered and raped:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

Muslims never woke up from that shock until today.

You can break a whole nation if you gave it enough brutality and monstrosity.

Cry me a river - you wont find anyone here without some ancient tribal scar in their legendary past. Didn't leave us all frothing loons forever. Just you and yours.

Yet another example of how your myths are pigshit. Cant handle setbacks.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#53
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
Tomorrow is Easter... can't we just deal with one bullshit story at a time?
  
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
                                      
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#54
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
Um… well it’s been a while since the last time I skimmed through the Quran so, there may be some missing context as far as my understanding of the Islamic depictions of hell.

But the first question that comes to mind (if this is even a phenomenon in the Quran) is, which hell are you referring to? Is it Sheol/Hades, or Gehenna? Because those are two very different things. But from my understanding, Revelation implies that Sheol/Hades will be thrown into Gehenna. Im making an educated guess that this is a cognate to the Islamic Jahanna(sp?). By my limited understanding so far, it sounds to me like the underworld (believed to be under the earth) will be consumed by the lake of fire. If the Quran has any direct references to such ideas, then the location of hell would be best interpreted as beneath the earth. Of course, we are dealing with multiple traditions that range from ancient Canaanite culture all the way to… circa 600-ish AD? If my memory serves me correctly. Which means the fundamental understanding of this underworld is from a flat earth perspective where the earth floats on the primordial waters with the firmament separating the waters, etc.

Long story short… I see no connections at all with black holes. The authors of the Tanakh, New Testament, and the Quran were not even aware of the earth being a sphere, let alone what a black hole was.

@arewethereyet Ironically, after all that, I’m about to go to bed as I have a piano gig at an Easter sunrise service. I would say happy Easter but I don’t know how well received that would be here so I’ll refrain.
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#55
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
Folks who believed the moon was split in two then reassembled. It's fair to say they didn't know much about space.

Thing that's interesting though, is that secular space shit is more real to this muslim than islamic shit is. That's why he's arguing islamic shit in by way of secular space shit..and not vv.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#56
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 16, 2022 at 10:53 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(April 16, 2022 at 10:47 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I would say: "here are the followers of Islam shocked by the Mongol sack of Baghdad and the Islamic empire; having 600 years of scientific discoveries drowned in the Euphrates; having their women, men, children and loved ones ending up butchered and raped:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

Muslims never woke up from that shock until today.

This is just bullshit; ever hear of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

I can't believe that you are spreading patently disinformation on this board.

So you're comparing the occupation of Spain with the Mongol atrocities?
..Score.
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#57
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
Which mongol atrocities? The timurid and mughal ones? probably not..cuz muslim, or some such shit. I think you should stick to getting one thing wrong at a time. Is this alt astronomy or alt history time?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#58
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 7:39 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(April 16, 2022 at 10:53 pm)Jehanne Wrote: This is just bullshit; ever hear of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

I can't believe that you are spreading patently disinformation on this board.

So you're comparing the occupation of Spain with the Mongol atrocities?
..Score.

The Mongols never made it to Spain. Al-Andalus was a major hub of Islamic scholarship and did not disappear even with the Reconquista, as Islamic texts were translated into Latin by the Christians.

Over the centuries into the modern era, Islam has become more anti-intellectual, that's why so few Muslims have won the Noble Prize.
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#59
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 17, 2022 at 1:23 am)JairCrawford Wrote: Long story short… I see no connections at all with black holes.

Nobody does. OP is being non sensical as usual.

(April 17, 2022 at 1:23 am)JairCrawford Wrote: The authors of the Tanakh, New Testament, and the Quran were not even aware of the earth being a sphere, let alone what a black hole was.

Ibn Taymiyyah reported a scholarly consensus (ijma') on the Earth being round. In other words, all major Muslim scholars of his era understood from the Qur'an and the prophet's sayings that the Earth is indeed round.  Ibn Hazm also reported this consensus.

Looks like you don't know what you're talking about. 

(April 17, 2022 at 1:26 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Folks who believed the moon was split in two then reassembled.  It's fair to say they didn't know much about space.

Miracles are by definition an interruption of the laws of physics. Muslims believe God split the moon and reassembled it just like any other theist who believes in miracles.

How much one knows about space is irrelevant, whatever physical law that governs space can be interrupted by God anyway.

(April 18, 2022 at 9:50 am)Jehanne Wrote: Over the centuries into the modern era, Islam has become more anti-intellectual, that's why so few Muslims have won the Noble Prize.

Muslims are just people who are determined by their socioeconomic status and their education as any other human being. Few Muslims winning a Nobel Prize is better explained by the quality of their educational systems in Muslim countries and how serious they are about funding research, etc. This has absolutely nothing to do with ther beliefs.

How can you guarantee that all other things are equal to make such statements on the sole basis of religion.. how many other factors were neglected ..?

No scholar from Mozambique ever won a Nobel prize. It must be because of christianity, it must be..!  Wacky
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#60
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 16, 2022 at 5:55 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(April 16, 2022 at 5:37 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Honey, do you need some Midol?  You seem a bit tense today.

Yes, please.  Arrgghh

This made me LOL.  I was happy to see a sense of humor and light-heartedness from you.
  
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
                                      
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