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Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
#1
Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
I think this deserves it's own thread. 

Reuters is reporting on another SCARY 6-3 ruling. SCOTUS has given police immunity for failure to inform suspects or witnesses of their Miranda rights. Now while a Miranda  violation still cannot be used in court as evidence, the person abused by that lack of being informed cannot sue the officers or department that did not inform them.

This basically makes Miranda useless. If you cannot hold law enforcement accountable for their abuses then there is no point in having any rights at all and we all must submit to a Orwellian police state. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supr...022-06-23/
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#2
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
Depends on the police department and jurisdiction, of course; police officers who violate the constitutional rights of others can and do get fired.
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#3
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
(June 26, 2022 at 9:53 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Depends on the police department and jurisdiction, of course; police officers who violate the constitutional rights of others can and do get fired.

But that individual officer cannot be sued even if fired, and even then, there would be nothing stopping that officer from getting a law enforcement job in another district. 

Violations of Miranda warnings and the ability to sue an officer or department that violates that right, is extremely vital to preventing a bully prosecutor or sympathetic judge to police, from railroading a suspect into prison. Please understand that public defenders DO NOT have the same budget to defend a defendant as the prosecutor can with basically an unlimited budget. This ruling will hurt the poor in all zip codes, but it also has the potential to bankrupt even an innocent middle class suspect. This is an extremely dangerous precedent.

There has been lots of proof in the past of coerced confessions which are basically false confessions because the innocent person is threatened with a more severe sentence than if they simply confess, even if it is something they did not do.
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#4
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
(June 26, 2022 at 10:17 pm)Brian37 Wrote: But that individual officer cannot be sued even if fired, and even then, there would be nothing stopping that officer from getting a law enforcement job in another district.

It is my impression that most police officers would agree that being terminated with cause is probably a career ending event.
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#5
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
Something worth noting, in practice, the Miranda warnings themselves are often useless. Why? As Anyone who’s seen enough interrogation videos on YouTube knows, a lot of the time, the perps don’t heed that warning. They just go ahead like nothing happened. Hell, sometimes, even after they get their lawyer, they end up digging their own graves anyway:


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#6
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
(June 26, 2022 at 9:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I think this deserves it's own thread. 

Reuters is reporting on another SCARY 6-3 ruling. SCOTUS has given police immunity for failure to inform suspects or witnesses of their Miranda rights. Now while a Miranda  violation still cannot be used in court as evidence, the person abused by that lack of being informed cannot sue the officers or department that did not inform them.

This basically makes Miranda useless. If you cannot hold law enforcement accountable for their abuses then there is no point in having any rights at all and we all must submit to a Orwellian police state. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supr...022-06-23/

Oh my goodness - cops can't be sued for violating the constitutional rights of arrestees - this is completely new information!

Seriously mate - look at the number of egregious acts committed by cops compared to how often police departments are successfully sued. All this ruling does is codify an already existing state of affairs. It's a yawn.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#7
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
(June 27, 2022 at 12:17 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: Something worth noting, in practice, the Miranda warnings themselves are often useless. Why? As Anyone who’s seen enough interrogation videos on YouTube knows, a lot of the time, the perps don’t heed that warning.  They just go ahead like nothing happened. Hell, sometimes, even after they get their lawyer, they end up digging their own graves anyway:



That certainly happens, nobody is denying that. 

But we are not talking about someone who has been warned. We are talking about police questioning someone for hours w/o reading Miranda to intimidate and lead a suspect and get them to falsely confess, and only then do they read Miranda. That also happens and a lot more than people realize. 

Miranda isn't there solely for the guilty. It is a long term quality control principle to minimize any trampling of rights of the society as  a whole long term. The idea is to prevent societal zeitgeist from leading to a vigilante government. Innocent people do end up in prison, and a lot more than you think. 

Again, keep in mind that a government public defender does not have the same budget as the prosecutor, nowhere close. On top of that public defenders have impossible case loads and cannot spend the same amount of time defending a client as say a rich person with a fleet of lawyers. And most of the cases that end up with an innocent person being convicted, are never stories that go national. 

I always stand by the principle "It is better to let 10 guilty people go free, than to convict one innocent person.". 

We have had a history of mob law and mob courts. Especially with minorities. There was a time  in American history where all it took to throw a black person in jail, or lynch them, was to simply falsely accuse them. Back then, the law were racist in countless districts, the prosecutor was racist, the judge was racist, and the jury was racist. And even today, our justice system still on average hurts black and brown poor people at a far higher rate than whites for similar offenses. 

Not being able to  hold police accountable for abuse is a very dangerous precedent and allowing that floodgate to widen the target field. If you have ever heard of Martin  Miemoller "First they came after". This isn't going to stop with guns, it isn't going to stop with abortion, and it isn't going to stop with Miranda. Our GOP went from mere principled disagreement with others, to flat out fascism. 

I do not like saying that, it deeply pains me to say that, but we are looking at a growing possibility that, knowing that in our system the pendulum always swings back and forth over time as far as power. I fear that if when the GOP gets all three branches once again, the pendulum will get stuck on their side, and our system will no longer have any meaning and will be for all practical purposes be dead.
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#8
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
If the police can't see you, then they can't arrest you. Your best bet, innocent or otherwise, is to avoid the police as much as possible when you suspect that they are pursuing you, and to gather as much evidence of your innocence as you can, if, in fact, you are innocent.
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#9
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
(June 26, 2022 at 9:53 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Depends on the police department and jurisdiction, of course; police officers who violate the constitutional rights of others can and do get fired.

(June 27, 2022 at 4:57 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(June 26, 2022 at 9:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I think this deserves it's own thread. 

Reuters is reporting on another SCARY 6-3 ruling. SCOTUS has given police immunity for failure to inform suspects or witnesses of their Miranda rights. Now while a Miranda  violation still cannot be used in court as evidence, the person abused by that lack of being informed cannot sue the officers or department that did not inform them.

This basically makes Miranda useless. If you cannot hold law enforcement accountable for their abuses then there is no point in having any rights at all and we all must submit to a Orwellian police state. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supr...022-06-23/

Oh my goodness - cops can't be sued for violating the constitutional rights of arrestees - this is completely new information!

Seriously mate - look at the number of egregious acts committed by cops compared to how often police departments are successfully sued. All this ruling does is codify an already existing state of affairs. It's a yawn.

Boru

The same is true of their ruling on abortion.  It merely codified an already existing state of affairs.  The reich wing had already effectively banned abortion by attacking access and providers. I think that many people don't feel that codifying existing malfeasance and corruption is what the supreme court (or any court) should be doing. Taken altogether, this recent dump of rulings is a demonstration of the vision our clerics on the bench have in mind for america. Their earthly authority is to be as unaccountable to man as the god they believe themselves to be taking marching orders from.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#10
RE: Another SCOTUS ruling that is also very scary.
(June 27, 2022 at 8:05 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(June 26, 2022 at 9:53 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Depends on the police department and jurisdiction, of course; police officers who violate the constitutional rights of others can and do get fired.

(June 27, 2022 at 4:57 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Oh my goodness - cops can't be sued for violating the constitutional rights of arrestees - this is completely new information!

Seriously mate - look at the number of egregious acts committed by cops compared to how often police departments are successfully sued. All this ruling does is codify an already existing state of affairs. It's a yawn.

Boru

The same is true of their ruling on abortion.  It merely codified an already existing state of affairs.  The reich wing had already effectively banned abortion by attacking access and providers.  I think that many people don't feel that codifying existing malfeasance and corruption is what the supreme court (or any court) should be doing.  Taken altogether, this recent dump of rulings is a demonstration of the vision our clerics on the bench have in mind for america.  Their earthly authority is to be as unaccountable to man as the god they believe themselves to be taking marching orders from.

I didn’t say I approved of the decision, I said it isn’t going to change anything. Since the court didn’t go so far as to prohibit informing arrestees of their rights, I imagine most cops will continue to do it out of inertia.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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