Ethics of Fashion

[John 6IX Breezy]

If you improve the business practices of zara you will have turned zara into un un-zara like store.

Hmm do you think any unethical environmental or working practices, are such that they can't be fixed with better technology for example?

[The Grand Nudger]

Plenty, since most exploitative labor practices aren't technological problems to begin with. They're profit solutions.

[John 6IX Breezy]

And it's disorienting when you see the coded symbols used out of context. Japanese people sometimes adopt a style out of a magazine without knowing the political meaning. So I've seen classic skinhead looks on mild college kids. There was a young couple in my neighborhood who had full Nazi gear for riding their big motorcycle. They would always smile and wave, non-threateningly, and didn't seem to understand what they were doing.

I have heard people say that Japanese denim is really good quality. That they bought and use all of the original Levi's machines, and make good Americana pieces. Do you know if this is true? Are you familiar with any brands?

[The Grand Nudger]

The nazi style thing wasn’t unintentional or symbol confusion. Poor olds, can’t decipher the kids these days.

[John 6IX Breezy]

@Belacqua

I think Grand raises an interesting point. I know very little of Japanese culture or their history. But given their close association with the Nazis in WWII, wouldn't there be more awareness and stigma there against such gear than in the US?

I'm very ignorant in the topic however, I just confess.

[Belacqua]

So if I could make an argument in favor of Zara and other fast fashion brands. They have the benefit of being many things to many people. They allow for diversity of style in ways that a smaller more niche brand cannot.

I think given the choice between improving the practices of Zara, and getting rid of Zara, having Zara-like stores around is good for consumers.

I hadn't thought of it this way -- this makes sense.

I have a couple of Zara suits that I like a lot, and I got them because they are different from the standard salaryman suits that are usually available. Normal shopping is either the typical office-worker suit or a designer brand that's very pricey. 

I suppose these things work on "economies of scale." They can offer things that are a little bit niche, at a low price, because they have 1000 shops around the world. In other words, in order to offer the diverse choices, they have to continue the practices that make them ethically questionable. Quick cheap labor, fast international distribution, throwing last month's stuff into the garbage. 

Since I don't know the first thing about economics, really, I fantasize about diverse choices that don't have these ethical issues. But I don't think shops like this could be as cheap or as widespread. 

It may be significant: the Hiroshima Zara has recently closed. And I won't buy from them on line because the quality of the fabric varies a lot, and I won't buy if i haven't touched it myself. The building is now occupied by a shop called "Standard Product" which has things like dishes and towels that are simple designs and very cheap. Like a dollar shop, but 5 dollars, and everything is supposed to be good but simple and inoffensive enough that everyone can use it.

As a contrast, there's a group of shops in Kyoto called Sou Sou. 

https://www.sousou.co.jp

These have really good quality fabric, in designs that are updated variations on Kyoto tradition. Since traditional kimono are worn much less now, the old fabric-making workshops are happy to have the business. They aren't as cheap as Zara, but they're certainly not prohibitive if you like the style. 

They seem to be doing very well -- when they started they had one tiny shop downtown, but in June when I was there they have taken over several adjacent stores. I don't know if they have ambitions to expand, but I suspect they are happy to be seen as a Kyoto specialty. 

Kyoto has an advantage here, because of their tradition. I don't know if a shop in Chicago or Cincinnati could invent some equivalent.

[Belacqua]

I have heard people say that Japanese denim is really good quality. That they bought and use all of the original Levi's machines, and make good Americana pieces. Do you know if this is true? Are you familiar with any brands?

Unfortunately American brands of denim have most of the market share, just because they're seen as more "authentic." 

It would be typical of Japanese companies to adopt a foreign technology and then improve the quality. There may very well be denim fanatics who swear by local brands, but I don't know about it!

[Belacqua]

@Belacqua

I think Grand raises an interesting point. I know very little of Japanese culture or their history. But given their close association with the Nazis in WWII, wouldn't there be more awareness and stigma there against such gear than in the US?

I'm very ignorant in the topic however, I just confess.

I will have to bow to Nudge's superior knowledge concerning the young people I live among. 

35 years ago I was teaching English to a group of high school kids in Hiroshima. I asked them "What is Hiroshima famous for?" They all answered "Oysters!" I said "Oh... Anything else?" They thought a while and then said "Yakuza!"

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, it’s not about being a nazi to them either. The whole thing blew up online for whatever godforsaken reason- it’s just the usual stuff. Edginess, irony, and more than a little bit of nazi shit just looking cool.

[John 6IX Breezy]

I suppose these things work on "economies of scale." They can offer things that are a little bit niche, at a low price, because they have 1000 shops around the world. In other words, in order to offer the diverse choices, they have to continue the practices that make them ethically questionable. Quick cheap labor, fast international distribution, throwing last month's stuff into the garbage. 

Since I don't know the first thing about economics, really, I fantasize about diverse choices that don't have these ethical issues. But I don't think shops like this could be as cheap or as widespread. 

I'm curious, do you think the differences would disappear if we adjusted for that scale? Which is to say, Zara can produce a diversity of options because it's a such big company. But if you were to sum up the impact of smaller niche companies, would their environmental impact be the same in the aggregate?