Satanic verses

[Jehanne]

The new testament, also, says exactly what it's authors wanted it to.  They went to a considerable amount of trouble to ensure that it did.  They, ofc, also believed that their magic man really said the stuff inside. Really did the stuff inside.  Really was who it says he was.

I don't think that the authors of the Gospels (canonical or otherwise) believed that they were quoting the original words of Jesus any more than Homer believed that he was actually relaying conversations between Zeus & Hera from Mount Olympus.  Rather, when the authors of Matthew & Luke were plagiarizing Mark's account, they were creating a narrative after the Roman conquest of Jerusalem to help preserve the living memory, traditions and theology of their various communities.  This is why the author(s) of the Gospel of John had no issue with placing Jesus' execution on a Thursday instead of a Friday, because having Jesus executed on the Day of Passover fit the theological views of John's community who, like Homer with his tales from Mount Olympus, could care less about the true historical Jesus.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh there's all sorts of more likely explanations - but, nevertheless, this isn't the christian understanding of the text or the reason they were collected and made official in the form we see today. The same is true of islamic magic book, ofc.

[Jehanne]

Oh there's all sorts of more likely explanations - but, nevertheless, this isn't the christian understanding of the text or the reason they were collected and made official in the form we see today.  The same is true of islamic magic book, ofc.

Oh, I agree.  Muslims of our World take the Quran more seriously than Muhammad or any of his followers during his lifetime.

[The Grand Nudger]

For the same reasons, I think, that we see resurgences of fundamentalist christianity as it (and perhaps the traditional western ideal) declines. Though, it's also the case that the earliest muslims had not yet had the centuries of boots on the ground work to enforce a broad conformity of mind. Closer, in that sense, to the pagan people who had come before them - then the ones we see today. We see this on the boards, too, in a contemporary form. A rejection of magic and a search for meaning and for confirmation of magic book in the explicitly and mundanely natural.

[R00tKiT]

No, lol, christians have not given up the amusing notion that magic book contains the words of wisdom of their own magic man. No more than you, a muslim, have given up on that same notion.  Do you not also continue to believe, as they believe, that your own magic book was divinely inspired?

Although I can't claim I know christianity better than the residents of this forum, I know for a fact that most christians don't interpret their bible as the literal words of God inspired to Jesus. They look at it as a collection of teachings and informative/inspiring stories. And btw the authors of a sacred book being divinely inspired is different from them being the recipient of God's words or revelations. 

The Qur'an on the other hand is believed to be God's words verbatim that were revealed to the Islamic prophet PBUH. This is a pillar of faith in Islam, so this belief is not really negotiable or optional for a Muslim.

Let's look at wiki's definition of the NT : It discusses the teachings and person of Jesus. That's what the christians' holy book is by definition : an anthology of metaphors, discussions, myths.

[Angrboda]

No, lol, christians have not given up the amusing notion that magic book contains the words of wisdom of their own magic man. No more than you, a muslim, have given up on that same notion.  Do you not also continue to believe, as they believe, that your own magic book was divinely inspired?

Although I can't claim I know christianity better than the residents of this forum, I know for a fact that most christians don't interpret their bible as the literal words of God inspired to Jesus. They look at it as a collection of teachings and informative/inspiring stories. And btw the authors of a sacred book being divinely inspired is different from them being the recipient of God's words or revelations. 

The Qur'an on the other hand is believed to be God's words verbatim that were revealed to the Islamic prophet PBUH. This is a pillar of faith in Islam, so this belief is not really negotiable or optional for a Muslim.

Let's look at wiki's definition of the NT : It discusses the teachings and person of Jesus. That's what the christians' holy book is by definition : an anthology of metaphors, discussions, myths.

So you believe that Jesus did not give the sermon on the mount?

[arewethereyet]

No, lol, christians have not given up the amusing notion that magic book contains the words of wisdom of their own magic man. No more than you, a muslim, have given up on that same notion.  Do you not also continue to believe, as they believe, that your own magic book was divinely inspired?

Although I can't claim I know christianity better than the residents of this forum, I know for a fact that most christians don't interpret their bible as the literal words of God inspired to Jesus. They look at it as a collection of teachings and informative/inspiring stories. And btw the authors of a sacred book being divinely inspired is different from them being the recipient of God's words or revelations. 

The Qur'an on the other hand is believed to be God's words verbatim that were revealed to the Islamic prophet PBUH. This is a pillar of faith in Islam, so this belief is not really negotiable or optional for a Muslim.

Let's look at wiki's definition of the NT : It discusses the teachings and person of Jesus. That's what the christians' holy book is by definition : an anthology of metaphors, discussions, myths.

Tell that to the fundamentalists...thete are a lot of them here in Ameristan.

fun·da·men·tal·ist
[ˌfəndəˈmen(t)ələst]


NOUN

1. a person who believes in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture in a religion:
   "religious fundamentalists"
   

[Deesse23]

Sometimes I got my theories refuted honestly,

Which ones?
Name 3 of them.
I am a member of this board for several years, and i can not recall you admitting being wrong about your religion (its content and its history) only once.

then found out that the only right evidence is that coming from a clear verse only.

Then you do not know what evidence is, and how to achieve it.
How do you determine the verse is "clear"? What is your methodology? Its very, very important what your god has to say (granted he exists), i think we both do agree on this. What is your methodology that is rigid enough to take this into account?
Do you realize that this is exactly what every religious fanatic and terrorist ever said? Can you exclude that one day you will find a verse telling you to kill other human beings?

Others would get drunk on their theories and start killing innocents* over it. I didn't do that.
I learned a lot in these 10 years. You never learn without doubting. But listen to the logic when it is said.

Why? What makes you so fundamentally different from all the other fundamentalist Muslims, who think their interpretation of the Quran is correct, who think they have clear verses to instruct them (to kill others)?
imho it boils down to methodology (see above).

[Deesse23]

I believe in every single word.
I'm not repeating it for 10 years if I didn't believe in it.

Actually, I have no doubts now, all doubting ended with knowing that:

1-Mohammed's name was in the OT:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-64344.html

2-The Big Bang Theory was mentioned in the Quran:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-64215.html

These two evidences concluded the 10 years I spent searching. Yes I kept a leap of faith; but now it's not just blind faith: this illiterate ancient Arab (Prophet Mohammed PBUH) was saying the total truth, he was contacted by a celestial being, and the being gave him the story of what we know today through cosmology and science as "The Big Bang Theory".

So I am fully honest.

When did you learn about Mohammeds name in the Bible? You created a thread about this in early August. Does that mean until a few weeks ago you had doubts about your religion?
But on the other hand you claim to "I'm not repeating it for 10 years if I didn't believe in it" as if already 10 years ago you knew about Mohammed and the OT.

So what were you lying about to us? About just learning about Mo and OT, while wasting 10 years of your life to "fake it until you make it", or by talking to us about the Quran for 10 years while withholding the one most important piece of evidence (which removed all doubts from you!): Mo and OT?

"These two evidences concluded the 10 years I spent searching"? For 10 years you had doubts and searched for evidence .....to remove your doubts? That would be confirmation bias and is a terrible was to gain knowledge. In fact this makes sure you believe in false things.

You are coming here for years, preaching to us that the Quran is the word of your god and that we should read it and believe
but
all the Quran, all of your gods words (!), literally everything, every single word, was insufficient to convince you of the truth of Islam? You needed to read the OT (part of the jewish Torah and the christian Bible) to be convinced of Islam?
Shouldn't you (to be intellectually honest) tell us to read the OT*, in order to learn about Allah? If reading the Quran was not sufficient for you to believe in Allah, why were you telling us all the years it should be sufficient to us? What do you think Allah is thinking about you? Knowing that his very words, given to the prophet pbuh, all the effort to spread those word in the world (all the suffering and pain inflicted in doing so) were not sufficient to convince you but the "tainted" OT finally did?

My take of this is: You arent intellectually honest, neither to us nor to yourself. You should start by becoming intellectually honest to yourself before you come back to these forums, if you like some advice from a non-believer.

I havent commented on Quran and BBT, since you already have been explained why your claims regarding this are completely unsubstantiated.


* to find Mohammeds name in it

[The Grand Nudger]

No, lol, christians have not given up the amusing notion that magic book contains the words of wisdom of their own magic man. No more than you, a muslim, have given up on that same notion.  Do you not also continue to believe, as they believe, that your own magic book was divinely inspired?

Although I can't claim I know christianity better than the residents of this forum, I know for a fact that most christians don't interpret their bible as the literal words of God inspired to Jesus. They look at it as a collection of teachings and informative/inspiring stories. And btw the authors of a sacred book being divinely inspired is different from them being the recipient of God's words or revelations. 

The authors of your magic book weren't the recipients of gods words.  The authors of the synoptics all claim to have heard gods words themselves.  That there were many other witnesses, beyond just themselves...too..that also heard gods words.  

The Qur'an on the other hand is believed to be God's words verbatim that were revealed to the Islamic prophet PBUH. This is a pillar of faith in Islam, so this belief is not really negotiable or optional for a Muslim.

There are alots of things that the faithful feel at some particular time is non-negotiable, but time has shown that to be a lack of imagination of the parts of those insisting as much.  

Let's look at wiki's definition of the NT : It discusses the teachings and person of Jesus. That's what the christians' holy book is by definition : an anthology of metaphors, discussions, myths.

Your magic book is also an anthology of metaphors, discussions, and myths.  Is that a problem?