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RE: Why do I say that Islam is an evil religion?
November 6, 2022 at 6:42 am
(November 5, 2022 at 7:24 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: (August 26, 2022 at 6:01 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Any mistake in the Quran will be a "checkmate" for Islam because the whole idea of the religion is that the Quran is the direct word of God.
The Quran says the sun sets in a mud puddle somewhere in Morocco. That didn't seem to wrap things up for Islam.
There was an ottoman Admiral called Piri Reis (1465-1553) whose world map is on display at the Halil Inancik Section of The University of Bilkent in Ankara. Take a look (Does it look like the sun sets on Morocco? – I mean really?-):
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RE: Why do I say that Islam is an evil religion?
November 6, 2022 at 9:53 am
(November 6, 2022 at 6:42 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: (November 5, 2022 at 7:24 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: The Quran says the sun sets in a mud puddle somewhere in Morocco. That didn't seem to wrap things up for Islam.
There was an ottoman Admiral called Piri Reis (1465-1553) whose world map is on display at the Halil Inancik Section of The University of Bilkent in Ankara. Take a look (Does it look like the sun sets on Morocco? – I mean really?-):
I see your map and raise the actual text from the Quran.
Sura 18:86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.”
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RE: Why do I say that Islam is an evil religion?
November 6, 2022 at 11:43 am
The entire Surah or Section can be found here (Al Kayf):
https://quran.com/18
The beginning is a story about “The seven sleepers” which is also mentioned n Christianity about 7 Christian believers who went into a cave in 250 AD (Located near the City of Ephesus of which I can send you some pictures if you like) and woke up 300 years later, in the East-Roman Empire /that had already converted to Christianity). There are the remains of a Byzantine church complex in that location
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sleepers
The second story is about the life of The Prophet Moses (You can read the whole section if you like, I think the translation on the web site I provided is very good).
And after the verse 18.86 there are some very vague definitions of geographical places like
“…until he reached the setting ˹point˺ of the sun, which appeared to him to be setting in a spring of murky water…”
“…until he reached the rising ˹point˺ of the sun. He found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no shelter from it…”
“…Then he travelled a ˹third˺ course… until he reached ˹a pass˺ between two mountains. He found in front of them a people who could hardly understand ˹his˺ language…”
There is also a mention of the land of Gog and Magog which is thought to be a land that is located somewhere near the Caspian Sea. (which is also mentioned in Judaism and Christianity).
So if I am understanding correctly, this is a section of the life of the prophet Moses that is similar to the account of the life of the Prophet Jonas who is said to have travelled inside the belly of a whale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah
- So no one said it’s Morocco. And no, I don’t think it could be understood as what you are describing
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RE: Why do I say that Islam is an evil religion?
November 6, 2022 at 11:53 am
(This post was last modified: November 6, 2022 at 11:54 am by LinuxGal.)
(November 6, 2022 at 11:43 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: And after the verse 18.86 there are some very vague definitions of geographical places like...
“…until he reached the setting ˹point˺ of the sun, which appeared to him to be setting in a spring of murky water…”
- So no one said it’s Morocco. And no, I don’t think it could be understood as what you are describing 
I go with Morocco because that would be land's end from the vantage of Arabia. At any rate, the sun is about a hunnert times wider than the whole Earth so it ain't gonna fit down some mud puddle. And yet this basic fact doesn't falsify Islam, no, the apologists come in and do the usual hand-wave, just like Christians do with the firmament of Genesis.
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RE: Why do I say that Islam is an evil religion?
November 8, 2022 at 2:20 pm
We are talking about the prophet Moses here. Moses was from a Jewish family in Ancient Egypt (possibly before 1200 BC). If I remember the movie correctly, at some point he leaves his brother Ramses because he was casted away from his kingdom and travelled to some places in the desert (I think this cannot be any further than the Sinai region or Arabia or Palestine at most, the other possibility would be Libya, But as far as I know you would have to travel by sea to reach habitable regions in Libya and Morocco was simply too far away, Phoenicians made that voyage in the 8th century BC., Before that, I think that part of the earth was unknown to the Egyptians).
But that’s not what matters here. These are mystical scriptures. Like the Bhagavad Gita for instance. We search for inner meanings and spiritual lessons in these texts. Although, of course, there can be real historical correlations in some of the events mentioned in these texts.
And there is a whole section of archaeology called “biblical archaeology” that focuses on such issues with the aim of finding places like, for instance, the city of Nineveh that is mentioned in the bible. I don’t see such issues as being essential for understanding the spiritual messages that I think are being related in these stories.
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RE: Why do I say that Islam is an evil religion?
November 8, 2022 at 2:28 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2022 at 2:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Exodus having never happened, for example, does have an effect on religious claims based on the assertion of exodus as literal truth. Islam falls squarely in the category of religions premised on such claims, as do all abrahamic religions. That's always been one of the problems with them, and..fwiw, problems for them. When religious norms are premised upon falsehoods...even if there were some valid and true way to argue for those norms, this would seem like it could erode societal barriers to bad behavior. After all, the badmaker was false. Abrahamism shot itself in the foot multiple times in this borrowed ladder scheme, imo, as it also had multiple opportunities for a clean break and better premises.
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