First-time, non-violent criminals do not belong in prison.

[Rev. Rye]

But he’s one of those non-violent offenders. You want to fine him AND force him to move? Or maybe you want him to do his community service in any community but yours.

NIMBY

Boru

Edit: and just FYI, mass incarceration in the US is a fucking money machine. The benefits from all that slave labour greatly eclipses what it costs to feed and house those slaves, so your whinging about the national debt is immaterial.

Boru

Legalizing drugs would mean giving such legitimacy, which means that a crack dealer could rent space right next to the neighborhood laundromat, probably making more money.

And if they were legalized, legit sellers will likely price the old dealers out of the market. Who needs to rely on the cartels when you can just get it at the store, in the same parts of the store as booze and tobacco (or maybe behind the counter at a pharmacy)? And if they’re legalized, as opposed to decriminalized, legally regulated buying and selling is more likely than the old coke dealer just setting up shop next to the laundromat.

[The Architect Of Fate]

History has consistently proven legalizing and regulating is the way to go on substances.

[Rev. Rye]

Personally, I'm inclined towards the direction of "legalize everything," at least drug-wise. Why? If you think the situation is bad enough when the US locks up an entire percent of its population, mostly for minor drug offenses, and still manages to lose the War on Drugs, wait until you look at what happens when a nation actually manages to stop the flow of drugs, like Russia managed to do with heroin.

So, what do you think happens when the junkies of Moscow can't get their fix? Do they get sober, or do they create something even worse? If you guessed the latter, you're clearly familiar with the patterns of Russian history. When they couldn't get heroin, they synthesised Desomorphine from Codeine. Desomorphine is a variation on morphine with a high that's 8 times as intense as heroin, and only lasts 15 minutes. And because these are junkies who don't have the benefit of that much education in chemistry, let alone the sort of safety and cleanliness procedures that would allow for safe synthesis of drugs, there's a lot of impurities in the Desomorphine. Life expectancy of a user from first hit to last breath is somewhere in the area of 2 years. In the meantime, you get all sorts of fucked-up side effects. Earlier in the process, skin around the injection sites starts to get green and scaly, which gave the drug its street name, Krokodil. And that's the good parts. Later in the downward spiral, your skin starts to rot off. Imagine the worst parts of Jared Leto's arm getting more and more gangrenous in Requiem for a Dream combined with the Nazis opening the Ark of the Covenant in Raiders of the Lost Ark and you start to get an idea of what you're dealing with. Google Image Search the word, and one of the first things you'll find is a picture of a Russian Junkie whose skin has rotted so badly that his ulna and radius are clearly visible. Not the outlines of the bones behind the skin, mind you, the bones themselves. This is what winning the War on Drugs really looks like.

Basically, they ended up with a flesh-eating opioid. And, despite having over a hundred thousand users in Russia and the Ukraine, it's never caught on in other countries for a very simple reason: they can get proper heroin that doesn't make your skin melt off. It's still illegal, but because their police aren't able to totally catch up to the black market, they can still get it.

And when your choices are between A) flesh eating opioids that only exist because the government has a stranglehold on the drug trade, B) a drug policy that's bad enough that we lock up a higher percent of the population than any other nation in history with the possible exception of the Nazis, but also incompetent enough that it doesn't actually stop the flow of drugs into the country, and C) just fucking legalise it, I know what I'm going to choose.

[Gwaithmir]

In my opinion, prisons exist to protect Society (which includes criminals themselves) from those who would commit physical harm against persons or property and from chronic, repeat non-violent offenders who could simply be an excessive burden on the police, courts, insurance companies, etc

It is neither just nor cost-effective to punish non-violent offenders with jail time.  Society can instead give them fines, list them on registries, make them do community service, monitor their movements, etc.

With the federal debt soaring to new heights, does the mass incarceration in the United States even make sense?

My truck was stolen during the mid-1980's. Not content to merely damage the vehicle by crashing into guardrails and other roadside objects during their high-speed escape, the two individuals involved later vandalized it by jumping on the cab, caving it in, stealing an expensive radio/tape deck that I had recently installed, breaking all the windows, and finally smashing the dashboard to smithereens with a pipe or crowbar. The damages totaled about $4,500. They pleaded guilty in court and used the "first offense" defense. They were each sentenced to a weekend in jail, $2,000 fine, restitution to my insurance company, and restitution to me for all expenses not covered by my insurance. I can still remember the grins on their faces and the way they slapped each other on the back as they left the courtroom. One of them never bothered paying any money and the other failed to reimburse my insurance company. They went on to commit other crimes, having learned they could get away with them.

Do you consider these clowns non-violent criminals who didn't deserve prison sentences?

[The Grand Nudger]

With the federal debt soaring to new heights, does the mass incarceration in the United States even make sense?

Ofc, it’s a profit center. I saw you daydreaming earlier about some time when things get so hard it won’t make sense to lock people up the way we do. Get that, love it, but unfortunately for you and I it works the other way around, lol.

[Jehanne]

With the federal debt soaring to new heights, does the mass incarceration in the United States even make sense?

Ofc, it’s a profit center. I saw you daydreaming earlier about some time when things get so hard it won’t make sense to lock people up the way we do. Get that, love it, but unfortunately for you and I it works the other way around, lol.

Is there any scientific evidence to support the notion that prison industries is paying for prisons, such that the whole enterprise is actually profitable??

[Jehanne]

In my opinion, prisons exist to protect Society (which includes criminals themselves) from those who would commit physical harm against persons or property and from chronic, repeat non-violent offenders who could simply be an excessive burden on the police, courts, insurance companies, etc

It is neither just nor cost-effective to punish non-violent offenders with jail time.  Society can instead give them fines, list them on registries, make them do community service, monitor their movements, etc.

With the federal debt soaring to new heights, does the mass incarceration in the United States even make sense?

Do you consider these clowns non-violent criminals who didn't deserve prison sentences?

Did you sue them in civil court?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Ofc, it’s a profit center.  I saw you daydreaming earlier about some time when things get so hard it won’t make sense to lock people up the way we do.  Get that, love it, but unfortunately for you and I it works the other way around, lol.

Is there any scientific evidence to support the notion that prison industries is paying for prisons, such that the whole enterprise is actually profitable??

Yup.

https://www.aclu.org/report/captive-labo...ed-workers

Boru

[Jehanne]

Is there any scientific evidence to support the notion that prison industries is paying for prisons, such that the whole enterprise is actually profitable??

Yup.

https://www.aclu.org/report/captive-labo...ed-workers

Boru

Okay, they are treated like dog shit, but, in terms of profits minus costs, is the Government actually making money?

[The Grand Nudger]

The government? I suppose they might collect some taxes sometimes - either from the prison operators or the folks who benefit from their labor (which the government does). Then, ofc, there are investments in the companies themselves directly, and mutual funds. Many a for-profit-prison protestors retirement dreams are locked up in how well we can cram a few more guys in lockup.