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RE: The existence of God
November 17, 2022 at 7:51 am
(November 17, 2022 at 7:32 am)arewethereyet Wrote: (November 17, 2022 at 6:07 am)HankMoody316 Wrote: From reading the last 5-10 comments, may I ask what atheists consider to be a "mainstream atheist"?
I haven't heard the term 'mainstream atheist' till it fell from Ahriman's mouth. Therefore, it's really not wasting a lot of time worrying about. I have never been mainstream anything, so there's that.
Since atheists form a rather small minority, it's somewhat quixotic to refer to them as mainstream anything.
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RE: The existence of God
November 17, 2022 at 9:15 am
(November 16, 2022 at 10:25 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (November 15, 2022 at 8:57 am)polymath257 Wrote: They are certainly more complex. But then, the brain is more complex than a container of gas.
Are they different in a way that leads us to suspect they can't be emergent from the brain processes? No.
In fact, ALL the evidence that we have is precisely that all conscious events are, in fact, brain events.
And, frankly, I think that 'qualia' is too vague a term to be useful. Nobody seems to be able to agree exactly what it means.
Sorry, but most of what you said is pure assertion. If in your opinion qualia is vaguely defined it is because of its irreducible immediacy. And no, there is no obvious way to reduce intentionality, what systems are about, to purely physical causes. Sure there are many approaches attempting to do so. Which means there is robust debate in an area you are professing certainty.
So does a quale include the emotional component?
If I look at a piece of red cloth that makes me sad, is there a red quale and a separate quale for the emotion? Or is there only one quale for the whole experience?
How is a quale different than a simple perception of the senses?
What in the world do you mean by 'irreducible immediacy'?
Sorry, but it looks to me that the term 'quale' is designed to confuse the situation, not to enlighten it.
Does a bacterium moving upwards in a chemical gradient have intentionality? Does a plant moving to get more sun have intentionality? Does someone having a reflex action have intentionality? Does a fish pursuing another fish have intentionality?
I think you will find that there is a broad range of behaviors, all rooted in physical processes, that range from clearly not intentional to clearly intentional. There seems to be no clean break and therefor no reason to suspect anything other than physical processes involved.
It looks to me like your assertion that consciousness cannot be explained by the physical aspects of the universe is a much stronger assertion than mine saying that it can. At least mine is based on collected evidence, the history of science, and a bit of cautious investigation.
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RE: The existence of God
November 17, 2022 at 9:41 am
@ polymath257
NS' modus operandi is the God of the Gaps. Because science can't solve (ar present) the hard problem of consciousness, well, "God exists". Why is there something rather than "nothing"? Well, "God exists". To any potentially unanswerable question or problem, well, "God exists".
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RE: The existence of God
November 17, 2022 at 1:49 pm
(November 17, 2022 at 9:41 am)Jehanne Wrote: @polymath257
NS' modus operandi is the God of the Gaps. Because science can't solve (ar present) the hard problem of consciousness, well, "God exists". Why is there something rather than "nothing"? Well, "God exists". To any potentially unanswerable question or problem, well, "God exists".
And yet, somehow, it is never made clear how a God existing actually explains the phenomena.
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RE: The existence of God
November 17, 2022 at 2:38 pm
(November 17, 2022 at 1:49 pm)polymath257 Wrote: (November 17, 2022 at 9:41 am)Jehanne Wrote: @polymath257
NS' modus operandi is the God of the Gaps. Because science can't solve (ar present) the hard problem of consciousness, well, "God exists". Why is there something rather than "nothing"? Well, "God exists". To any potentially unanswerable question or problem, well, "God exists".
And yet, somehow, it is never made clear how a God existing actually explains the phenomena.
He/she/it is hiding from us.
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RE: The existence of God
November 17, 2022 at 9:55 pm
(November 17, 2022 at 1:49 pm)polymath257 Wrote: (November 17, 2022 at 9:41 am)Jehanne Wrote: @polymath257
NS' modus operandi is the God of the Gaps. Because science can't solve (ar present) the hard problem of consciousness, well, "God exists". Why is there something rather than "nothing"? Well, "God exists". To any potentially unanswerable question or problem, well, "God exists".
And yet, somehow, it is never made clear how a God existing actually explains the phenomena.
"Exists" means a pointer on a device somewhere indicates God. All we get from believers is, "I know it in my knower."
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RE: The existence of God
November 17, 2022 at 10:32 pm
(November 17, 2022 at 9:55 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: "Exists" means a pointer on a device somewhere indicates God.
Tell me you've never read Plato without saying you've never read Plato.
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RE: The existence of God
November 17, 2022 at 10:40 pm
(November 17, 2022 at 10:32 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (November 17, 2022 at 9:55 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: "Exists" means a pointer on a device somewhere indicates God.
Tell me you've never read Plato without saying you've never read Plato.
That the average family in the world has 2.4 children is a valid statistical statement, but there does not exist a family somewhere with 0.4 of a child. Next you'll be telling me wavefunction realism is a thing and we should all be psi-ontologists.
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RE: The existence of God
November 18, 2022 at 1:19 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2022 at 1:19 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 17, 2022 at 10:32 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (November 17, 2022 at 9:55 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: "Exists" means a pointer on a device somewhere indicates God.
Tell me you've never read Plato without saying you've never read Plato.
Incredible, because that's pretty much what you do every time you get to babbling about classical thought as an explanation for your various forum turds?
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RE: The existence of God
November 18, 2022 at 5:08 am
(November 17, 2022 at 10:32 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (November 17, 2022 at 9:55 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: "Exists" means a pointer on a device somewhere indicates God.
Tell me you've never read Plato without saying you've never read Plato.
I've never read the works of Plato.
I've seen the fekker's ideas worked over and presented more times than I can count.
Not at work.
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