Just When You Thought Arizona Couldn't Get Stupider...

[reverendjeremiah]

You mean the past in which civilians are mowed down for attempting to revolt against oppression?

That never happened, not to my knowledge anyway.

Briton was actually one of the most free nations, still is. What pressured crime to go up was probably due to poverty. Give everyone a knife, stabbings went up. Take'em away, crime rates dropped. Can't stab someone if you haven't got a knife.
The less guns there are, the less likely you are to being shot. No guns, make them hard to obtain and increase security.
I firmly vote no to guns.

Yeah, well, keep that firm vote against guns in your country.

[Ace Otana]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peasant_revolts
Or even better...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rev...rebellions

Surely you don't presume all of these occurred without the use of extremely deadly force?

And this relates to legalising concealed weapons...how? When I mentioned a time when everyone was given a knife, it was to defend themselves. Stabbings went sky high soon after, it demonstrates what could happen again but this time with guns. You have to ask yourself, are we repeating the past and it's mistakes?
Rebellions and uprising is a different topic.

Only... everyone can have a knife. They are remarkably easy to conceal. Sword too if you are doing it right Handguns are much harder to obtain.

Aye, it's so very easy to pick up a knife and go use it on someone. You know how easy it would be for me to buy a deadly crossbow online, go to the town centre with it, get onto a roof top and shoot people dead with it. I could go wait in the trees until someone walks by. Just aim and fire. Too easy.
Not hard at all. Despite the easiness of it, no one has. Not to my knowledge anyway. I think it's through education, prevention, community minded people and improved security that we can stop violent and potentially armed criminals. Not arming up the general public.

Yeah, well, keep that firm vote against guns in your country

I plan too old chap.

[reverendjeremiah]

Aye, it's so very easy to pick up a knife and go use it on someone. You know how easy it would be for me to buy a deadly crossbow online, go to the town centre with it, get onto a roof top and shoot people dead with it. I could go wait in the trees until someone walks by. Just aim and fire. Too easy.
Not hard at all. Despite the easiness of it, no one has. Not to my knowledge anyway. I think it's through education, prevention, community minded people and improved security that we can stop violent and potentially armed criminals. Not arming up the general public.

Really? So you have that little control of yourself? Dont say that isnt what you meant. I'm looking right at your post.

So let me get this straight, because YOU (yes, you said "me") cant control yourself, and you think OTHERS cant control themselves, then EVERYONE should be robbed the freedom of owning a knife? Or because you think it is so easy for you to get on a rooftop and shoot someone, you need to ban ALL guns?

Do you think if everyone in my community had guns and knives they would be killing everyone as well?

[Ace Otana]

Really? So you have that little control of yourself? Dont say that isnt what you meant. I'm looking right at your post.

So let me get this straight, because YOU (yes, you said "me") cant control yourself, and you think OTHERS cant control themselves, then EVERYONE should be robbed the freedom of owning a knife? Or because you think it is so easy for you to get on a rooftop and shoot someone, you need to ban ALL guns?

Do you think if everyone in my community had guns and knives they would be killing everyone as well?

Didn't think I'd get that sort of a reply. Little surprised.
I can control myself. Harming others could never come to mind. I just know how easy it is to go out, buy a weapon and use it. That is what worries me.
I know there are a lot of sensible people out there. However there are a lot of nutters out there too. I would feel safer if no one was allowed to conceal any sort of weapon. No weapons full stop.
I'm damn afraid of anyone outside the police force who poses a weapon.

Perhaps I said it wrong?

Do you think if everyone in my community had guns and knives they would be killing everyone as well?

No, I don't. Still prefer them not to carry concealed weapons.

[reverendjeremiah]

Didn't think I'd get that sort of a reply. Little surprised.
I can control myself. Harming others could never come to mind. I just know how easy it is to go out, buy a weapon and use it. That is what worries me.

Well, the way you worded it, you sure seemed the nutter at the moment. You had me worried a bit.

I know there are a lot of sensible people out there. However there are a lot of nutters out there too. I would feel safer if no one was allowed to conceal any sort of weapon. No weapons full stop.
I'm damn afraid of anyone outside the police force who poses a weapon.

Perhaps I said it wrong?

So a few nutters cost the entire population their right to arm themselves in your mind?

"No weapons full stop." Really?

That slope is slippery..slippery slope sliding down

[Ace Otana]

Well, the way you worded it, you sure seemed the nutter at the moment. You had me worried a bit.

I'd feel the same. I really didn't mean it that way.

I'm going to add further.
What brings you to feel the need to carry a weapon around with you? You see, where I am, I feel very safe. I live in a large town that has it's crime like many others do but I never hear of any stabbings or shootings. I have only ever witnessed one crime being committed. I feel no need to carry/conceal any weapon.
The security here is pretty good. If I was in a society where crime was rampant, and the police and security aren't so good, then maybe yes, I'd feel the need to carry a weapon.
I believe in disarmament, and relying on the police force to deter violent criminals.

Is crime really that bad over there, that you feel the need to carry a deadly weapon around with you?

I'm afraid I am against the freedom to conceal deadly weapons.

[reverendjeremiah]

What brings you to feel the need to carry a weapon around with you?

#1 - You see, over here in the states, we call that "leading the witness" and is frowned upon. You may as well ask "What brings you to feel the need to believe in Christianity?" when you have already stated (in this imaginary context) that you are opposed to people having a belief in a religion and that they should be forced to give it up by the state.

#2 - I believe in disarmament, and relying on the police force to deter violent criminals.

I hope that works out for you personally. As far as disarming others and taking their right to defend themselves I find that disgusting and totalitarian.

Is crime really that bad over there, that you feel the need to carry a deadly weapon around with you?

#3 - Crime? What crime? In my community there hardly is any crime, except the occasional dope smoking (which shouldnt be against the law in my opinion). Thats about it. As far as the "deadly weapon", see answer number one up there

I'm afraid I am against the freedom to conceal deadly weapons.

I appreciate your opinion, but I am afraid I cant allow my freedoms to be taken from me. Feel free to give yours up, but leave my freedoms alone. In return I will leave your freedoms alone.

[Skipper]

So a few nutters cost the entire population their right to arm themselves in your mind?

There is no right to arm yourself in this country though. And as far as I know there is nobody wanting that right, I have never met anyone in Britain who wants a gun and I've never seen any real movement pushing for the right to own a gun and it seems to be doing us well when you consider we are one of the lowest ranking nations of gun crime per capita in the world, obviously that comes with tight gun controls but that seems to bother nobody here as nobody sees guns as a necessity. So these few nutters you speak of are really costing us, in Britain, nothing.

Americans obviously have the right to own a gun enshrined in the constitution and as I said earlier in the thread as that right is so embedded in the culture I do see the benefits of everyone being armed as to protect themselves from the other people who use that right to be armed to kill. But as it stands in Britain, pretty much nobody owns a gun, pretty much nobody wants a gun and so pretty much nobody commits murder with a gun.

I am a massive fan of the constitution and feel the right to bear arms was relevant at the time it was written but is now such a dated concept, however with such things you take the good with the bad and if you started fiddling with what your country was founded on who knows where you would end up so while I love living in a country where I am never forced to carry a weapon with me just in case someone else is I recognise that in the U.S that's a freedom that is accepted, and actively welcomed by some, however don't go thinking we're missing out on anything over here by not having the right to own guns...we genuinely don't want them.

[Ace Otana]

#1 - You see, over here in the states, we call that "leading the witness" and is frowned upon. You may as well ask "What brings you to feel the need to believe in Christianity?" when you have already stated (in this imaginary context) that you are opposed to people having a belief in a religion and that they should be forced to give it up by the state.

Believing in a god is not the same as carrying a deadly weapon around with you. If the police force is deterring crime well and to the point where confrontation is unlikely, I see no reason to carry any weapon around with you. Some freedoms should not be, for the betterment of society.
I understand and respect your opinion.

I hope that works out for you personally. As far as disarming others and taking their right to defend themselves I find that disgusting and totalitarian.

Never needed a weapon yet, don't think I ever will. Over here, you can defend yourself, even with canes, just not deadly weapons, you can be trained to disarm attackers. I believe it's called reasonable force. Some freedoms can do more harm than good.

#3 - Crime? What crime? In my community there hardly is any crime, except the occasional dope smoking (which shouldnt be against the law in my opinion). Thats about it.

No crime...or virtually none. Yet you'd still carry a deadly weapon around with you? Why?

I appreciate your opinion, but I am afraid I cant allow my freedoms to be taken from me.

I appreciate yours too. I would never dictate the freedom of others from other lands, friend.
You have your opinions and laws, I have mine.

Feel free to give yours up

Think you'll find that most Brits are happy without the freedom to carry deadly weapons around with them. No need for them. I like to think that we are above that.

"No weapons full stop." Really?

Yes, really. You've been brought up in a society that generally accepts carrying around deadly weapons. It's the opposite here. It's frowned on.

That slope is slippery..slippery slope sliding down

Not from my point of view, or the view of any other Brit I chance to say.

[reverendjeremiah]

Oh no. I never said anything that your society should be forced to have weapons. I just didnt care to much for Ace deciding on a whim that all guns should be banned. When it comes to things like that, Ace should be careful that he only mentions HIMSELF and not EVERYONE on the planet. If Ace doesnt like guns, and thinks disarming is great, then he can get rid of HIS guns and disarm HIMSELF.

We over here in America have a different society. Sure, we have our gun nuts. Trust me, I am NOT a gun nut. I can show you a BUNCH of gun nuts. Compared to Ace I probably sound like a major gun nut. So from outside of America, Arizona may look strange, but here in America Arizon isnt on the top rank when it comes to kooky gun people and laws. Some places in Texas are so nutty I wouldnt be surprised to see a bill allowing 1st graders to take their .22 pistols to school. Chicago has flat out banned handguns, which is REALLY kooky, considering the 2nd highest law of the land says the govt cannot infringe upon the right to bear arms. I am aware that many of my fellow Progressives have made this law, and that is usually one of the BIGGEST complaints I have with my fellow liberal brothers and sister here in America.