RE: British Non-Catholic Historian on Historical Longevity of the Roman Catholic Church.
July 15, 2023 at 12:14 am
(This post was last modified: July 15, 2023 at 12:18 am by Nishant Xavier.)
Militant Atheist is a description, just like Catholic Christian. Militant Atheist means someone who believes Religion is evil. Name-calling is like when some of you hurl blasphemies and curses at Almighty God, and also throw various cuss words and slurs at me. That's name-calling. Calling me a Catholic Christian isn't name-calling because that's what I am. Neither is calling someone who believes Religion is evil a Militant Atheist. Now, if you believe Religion is not evil, then tell me, and then you're a Normal Atheist, not a Militant Atheist. But unless you change views between threads, I doubt it. You've expressed clearly enough you think Religion is evil and so I was going off that.
Since the Catholic Church, as my signature shows, is the World's Largest Healthcare Organization, you could call us faithful Catholics "World's Largest Healthcare Organization" enablers more truly. The Pedophile issue I've already clearly explained on another thread, so not going into here. We believe, as Cardinal Pell was wrongly accused, but still went to Prison, so even more those small % of bad Priests should also go to Prison if proven guilty. St. Padre Pio and St. John Vianney are model Priests who lived not that long ago, a holy model of Priestly and Saintly Perfection.
Now, back to your chosen issue, which is Messianic Prophecies: Specifically, you claim:
(1) "he [the Messiah] was not to be the son of god"; let's examine that. Ever read this in the Gospel, where Christ proves the Messiah's Divinity from the Prophecies about Him, like King David's made 1000 years before He came: "43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.”’ 45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be [just] his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions." [Mat 22]
The reference is to Psa 110:1, which David wrote 1000 years before Christ came. Did you catch Christ's Argument to the Pharisees. Christ, the Logos, used Logic and Reason all the time. It was like this: (1) David calls the Messiah his Lord (2) the Messiah is not just therefore a son of David, a human king, but (3) the Lord of David and Son of God. He is the Lord at the Father's Right Hand who sits like an Equal beside God.
A second example confirms the point, this time from Daniel around 500 years before Christ's Birth: "25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." (Dan 3). Again, the false opinion of the Pharisees, that the Messiah is not the Son of God, or that He was not Pre-Existent, or that Son of God is just a Metaphor is completely disproved: the Divine Son of God is Pre-Existent and He had the Power to save from the Fire. Here, you have the Gospel in the OT, hidden in a riddle which came from a wise God, and which God Himself, Christ, would unfold in time.
A third consideration: Abraham (we'll come to historicity in a minute) is visited by a seemingly Divine Priest, out of nowhere, without a Genealogy, who gives him, wonder of wonders, Bread and Wine, just like Christian Priests today distribute. Next, this Priest blesses Abraham as if He were Superior to him; yet, Abraham was the greatest Saint of that age under God. Who was Melchizedek? None other than the Pre-Existent Messiah.
Wiki: "He is first mentioned in Genesis 14:18–20,[2] where he brings out bread and wine and then blesses Abram and El Elyon. ... 11Q13 (11QMelch) is a fragment of a text, dated to the end of the second or start of the first century BC, about Melchizedek, found in Cave 11 at Qumran in the West Bank and part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Melchizedek is seen as a divine being in the text and is referred to as "El" or "Elohim", titles usually reserved for God.[48] According to the text, Melchizedek will proclaim the "Day of Atonement" and he will atone for the people who are predestined to him. He also will judge the peoples.[49]". See how 2nd century BC texts understood this Messiah was Divine Being.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melchizedek And so the Pre-Existent Son of God pre-dates Abraham and visited him, to bless him and give him Bread and Wine, a type of His Future Eucharistic Sacrifice. All this 4000 years ago in Books written by Jews, not Christians. Therefore, it is clear the Biblical Messiah was always meant to be Divine. On historicity of Abraham and OT in general, I will cite Jewish Archeologist Nelson Glueck, a world renowned and highly accomplished archaeologist in another thread. For now, note that the OT Messiah is clearly Divine.
2. The next point about the Messiah is that He has to die for our sins. Only after He does this, and people accept Him as such, does World Peace arrive. Have you read Isaiah 53, if you know the Bible so well, which announces clearly a sinless suffering Messiah, Who is His People's Savior? And since He saves them from their sins, that's another OT evidence that the promised Messiah is to be God Himself, since God says a few chapters earlier in Isaiah that He is the only Savior. God is the only Savior (2) the Messiah is the Savior (3) Therefore, the Messiah is God Himself.
There's a Reason Christians easily one this debate when first Jesus Christ Himself, and then His blessed Apostles, had it with the Pharisees.
Here are some excerpts from Isa 53 in 700 B.C. It is read in the Church on Good Friday. In some Synagogues, though part of the Hebrew Scriptures, it is a "Forbidden Chapter". It clearly reveals Christ:
Isa 53:
"4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished."
700 BC. Note the date. Gee, I wonder who ever died for our sins and "was pierced for our transgressions". Obviously, only the Messiah, Jesus Christ. So, your opinion that the Messiah promised in the OT did not have to be the Son of God or die for our sins is historically inaccurate.
Since the Catholic Church, as my signature shows, is the World's Largest Healthcare Organization, you could call us faithful Catholics "World's Largest Healthcare Organization" enablers more truly. The Pedophile issue I've already clearly explained on another thread, so not going into here. We believe, as Cardinal Pell was wrongly accused, but still went to Prison, so even more those small % of bad Priests should also go to Prison if proven guilty. St. Padre Pio and St. John Vianney are model Priests who lived not that long ago, a holy model of Priestly and Saintly Perfection.
Now, back to your chosen issue, which is Messianic Prophecies: Specifically, you claim:
(1) "he [the Messiah] was not to be the son of god"; let's examine that. Ever read this in the Gospel, where Christ proves the Messiah's Divinity from the Prophecies about Him, like King David's made 1000 years before He came: "43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.”’ 45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be [just] his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions." [Mat 22]
The reference is to Psa 110:1, which David wrote 1000 years before Christ came. Did you catch Christ's Argument to the Pharisees. Christ, the Logos, used Logic and Reason all the time. It was like this: (1) David calls the Messiah his Lord (2) the Messiah is not just therefore a son of David, a human king, but (3) the Lord of David and Son of God. He is the Lord at the Father's Right Hand who sits like an Equal beside God.
A second example confirms the point, this time from Daniel around 500 years before Christ's Birth: "25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." (Dan 3). Again, the false opinion of the Pharisees, that the Messiah is not the Son of God, or that He was not Pre-Existent, or that Son of God is just a Metaphor is completely disproved: the Divine Son of God is Pre-Existent and He had the Power to save from the Fire. Here, you have the Gospel in the OT, hidden in a riddle which came from a wise God, and which God Himself, Christ, would unfold in time.
A third consideration: Abraham (we'll come to historicity in a minute) is visited by a seemingly Divine Priest, out of nowhere, without a Genealogy, who gives him, wonder of wonders, Bread and Wine, just like Christian Priests today distribute. Next, this Priest blesses Abraham as if He were Superior to him; yet, Abraham was the greatest Saint of that age under God. Who was Melchizedek? None other than the Pre-Existent Messiah.
Wiki: "He is first mentioned in Genesis 14:18–20,[2] where he brings out bread and wine and then blesses Abram and El Elyon. ... 11Q13 (11QMelch) is a fragment of a text, dated to the end of the second or start of the first century BC, about Melchizedek, found in Cave 11 at Qumran in the West Bank and part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Melchizedek is seen as a divine being in the text and is referred to as "El" or "Elohim", titles usually reserved for God.[48] According to the text, Melchizedek will proclaim the "Day of Atonement" and he will atone for the people who are predestined to him. He also will judge the peoples.[49]". See how 2nd century BC texts understood this Messiah was Divine Being.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melchizedek And so the Pre-Existent Son of God pre-dates Abraham and visited him, to bless him and give him Bread and Wine, a type of His Future Eucharistic Sacrifice. All this 4000 years ago in Books written by Jews, not Christians. Therefore, it is clear the Biblical Messiah was always meant to be Divine. On historicity of Abraham and OT in general, I will cite Jewish Archeologist Nelson Glueck, a world renowned and highly accomplished archaeologist in another thread. For now, note that the OT Messiah is clearly Divine.
2. The next point about the Messiah is that He has to die for our sins. Only after He does this, and people accept Him as such, does World Peace arrive. Have you read Isaiah 53, if you know the Bible so well, which announces clearly a sinless suffering Messiah, Who is His People's Savior? And since He saves them from their sins, that's another OT evidence that the promised Messiah is to be God Himself, since God says a few chapters earlier in Isaiah that He is the only Savior. God is the only Savior (2) the Messiah is the Savior (3) Therefore, the Messiah is God Himself.
There's a Reason Christians easily one this debate when first Jesus Christ Himself, and then His blessed Apostles, had it with the Pharisees.
Here are some excerpts from Isa 53 in 700 B.C. It is read in the Church on Good Friday. In some Synagogues, though part of the Hebrew Scriptures, it is a "Forbidden Chapter". It clearly reveals Christ:
Isa 53:
"4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished."
700 BC. Note the date. Gee, I wonder who ever died for our sins and "was pierced for our transgressions". Obviously, only the Messiah, Jesus Christ. So, your opinion that the Messiah promised in the OT did not have to be the Son of God or die for our sins is historically inaccurate.
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