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Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
#51
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(September 29, 2023 at 1:30 pm)GrandizerII Wrote: Too many historical factors to take into consideration, but roughly speaking it partly has to do with Paul being one of the prominent leaders among the mid-first century Christians, and had quite a number of epistles written in his name - some of which he himself didn't write but nevertheless were accepted/believed as such by later Christians.

Which Paul, there are four distinct writers of the Pauline epistles.
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#52
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
Another thing about Paul is if you read Acts you can see that it portrays Paul as one who performed more miracles, raised more from the dead and was generally greater than Jesus.

How is that not blasphemy?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#53
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(October 3, 2023 at 1:52 pm)GUBU Wrote:
(September 29, 2023 at 1:30 pm)GrandizerII Wrote: Too many historical factors to take into consideration, but roughly speaking it partly has to do with Paul being one of the prominent leaders among the mid-first century Christians, and had quite a number of epistles written in his name - some of which he himself didn't write but nevertheless were accepted/believed as such by later Christians.

Which Paul, there are four distinct writers of the Pauline epistles.

The author of Romans.

Four? I thought it was three? Unless you're counting Hebrews as a Pauline epistle.
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#54
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(October 2, 2023 at 9:24 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:
(October 2, 2023 at 8:53 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: I asked you who in your consensus claim is not economically obligated. You gave a few names. I want ALL the names in your fake consensus, and PROOF of your claim.

GrandizerII:

1. Dominic Crossan
2. James McGrath
3. Richard Carrier
4. James Tabor
5: Bart Ehrman

You:

1. Robert Price

Halftime at Circvs Maximvs and the Lions lead the Mythicists 5 to 1

No dear.
It may have gone over your head, 
I want to know who are ALL the names in his consensus, believers and non-believers, 
and the organizations they work for.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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#55
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(October 3, 2023 at 6:22 pm)GrandizerII Wrote:
(October 3, 2023 at 1:52 pm)GUBU Wrote: Which Paul, there are four distinct writers of the Pauline epistles.

The author of Romans.

Four? I thought it was three? Unless you're counting Hebrews as a Pauline epistle.

Two different agendas in the three deutero-Pauline epistles.

Ephesians and Colossians are very similar in composition and subject matter, but 2 Thessalonians reads like a forgery that's trying too hard for authenticity:

2 Thess. 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
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#56
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(October 2, 2023 at 10:18 pm)GrandizerII Wrote:
(October 2, 2023 at 8:53 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Nope. 
I asked you who in your consensus claim is not economically obligated. You gave a few names. I want ALL the names in your fake consensus, and PROOF of your claim.
I have no positive case. I simply asked a question concerning YOUR consensus claim. I see I'm never going to get it.
I see the time being wasted here is mine. You have no support for your claim.

ta ta

You knew you weren't going to get exactly what you asked for because your demand wasn't made in good faith. There was no way I was going to list every single name for you, that'd be completely unreasonable. You also sneak in an extra demand which was not in line with what I claimed.

I gave you some names, and you weren't happy, but you were not going to be happy unless I gave you exactly what you wanted.

Here's the thing, Bucky. One need not know every single scholar/expert holding to a consensus to be certain that there is such a consensus. Consensus, in fact, very often isn't something that is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but is nevertheless something that is noted in academic works or credible encyclopedias/wikis. It is implied also through observing a lack of relevant experts opposing the consensus.

I didn't waste your time, you did that to yourself.

And I don't believe for a second that you don't hold to a positive case for Paul mythicism. Though I do accept you don't have a strong argument to make for it.

Quote:And I don't believe for a second that you don't hold to a positive case for Paul mythicism.

And you would be 110% wrong.
So now you're a mind reader ? . 
It was made in good faith. How many religionists make the claim of "consensus" yet actually have no clue what they're claiming. 
You are apparently one of them.
Ta ta


Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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#57
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(October 3, 2023 at 8:15 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: I want to know who are ALL the names in his consensus, believers and non-believers, 
and the organizations they work for.

Because this sort of inquiry is up for grabs to the highest bidder, just like climate science.  Everybody knows that! When I first came to this atheist forum I was in the pay of Satan, but the fucker turned out to be a deadbeat.  Paychecks bounced.  Thinking of moving over to a Christian Forum now.
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#58
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(October 3, 2023 at 8:15 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(October 2, 2023 at 9:24 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: GrandizerII:

1. Dominic Crossan
2. James McGrath
3. Richard Carrier
4. James Tabor
5: Bart Ehrman

You:

1. Robert Price

Halftime at Circvs Maximvs and the Lions lead the Mythicists 5 to 1

No dear.
It may have gone over your head, 
I want to know who are ALL the names in his consensus, believers and non-believers, 
and the organizations they work for.

That strikes me as a research project you should undertake, since it isn’t really a reasonable request.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#59
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(October 3, 2023 at 3:15 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Another thing about Paul is if you read Acts you can see that it portrays Paul as one who performed more miracles, raised more from the dead and was generally greater than Jesus.

How is that not blasphemy?

Paul sure thought he was greater than Jesus.

Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for you, and I am completing in my flesh what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for his body, that is, the church.
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#60
RE: Why are Paul's writings in the Bible?
(October 3, 2023 at 8:26 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(October 3, 2023 at 8:15 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: No dear.
It may have gone over your head, 
I want to know who are ALL the names in his consensus, believers and non-believers, 
and the organizations they work for.

That strikes me as a research project you should undertake, since it isn’t really a reasonable request.

Boru

There actually are polls of scholars on the subject. 
If I need a project, I'll be sure and ask.
I'm not the one who claimed "consensus" and could not support the claim.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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