Smoking

[emjay]

The German word for smoking is rauchen and I can't think of a more apt word for it than that; to say it, it sounds just like my voice and my breathing sounded when I was smoking at my worst. A great word to practice the more awkward sounds of the German language... a rolling R and a loch-like ch... but otherwise a horrible word for a horrible thing that sounds just like its meaning, to me at least. That's all smoking will ever mean to me now... rauchen.

Sounds like a pretty good word for it.

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I think younger people can easily overlook the future health consequences of smoking. It's easy to rationalize things away when the effects occur decades later.

If you were to look at my extended family, and what happened to the generation older than me, overwhelmingly what killed them was smoking, followed closely by drinking.

Yeah, I'm not blaming anyone... I agree it's all too easy to rationalise it away when it's abstract and a long way off.

How are you doing anyway?... I know you were hit badly by it. I still have trouble breathing sometimes but it's nowhere near as bad as it was five years ago when I'd often wake up gasping for air and had to take mints with me everywhere just to help me breathe... so I have healed quite a lot I think... not perfect but more than I was expecting. At least I can exercise now... like I never would've dreamed I could before, but on the flip side I am overweight now, which I never was as a smoker, so that's a bit of a constant battle.

[Jackalope]

Sounds like a pretty good word for it.  

---

I think younger people can easily overlook the future health consequences of smoking.  It's easy to rationalize things away when the effects occur decades later.

If you were to look at my extended family, and what happened to the generation older than me, overwhelmingly what killed them was smoking, followed closely by drinking.

Yeah, I'm not blaming anyone... I agree it's all too easy to rationalise it away when it's abstract and a long way off.

How are you doing anyway?... I know you were hit badly by it. I still have trouble breathing sometimes but it's nowhere near as bad as it was five years ago when I'd often wake up gasping for air and had to take mints with me everywhere just to help me breathe... so I have healed quite a lot I think... not perfect but more than I was expecting. At least I can exercise now... like I never would've dreamed I could before, but on the flip side I am overweight now, which I never was as a smoker, so that's a bit of a constant battle.

I'm doing well, thanks. Had another health scare a few years ago, which was one of many catalysts that let to me making some better health choices - I gave up alcohol and meat, and I'm trying to be more active. I put on a few pounds when I quit drinking - yeah it's a constant battle.

[emjay]

Yeah, I'm not blaming anyone... I agree it's all too easy to rationalise it away when it's abstract and a long way off.

How are you doing anyway?... I know you were hit badly by it. I still have trouble breathing sometimes but it's nowhere near as bad as it was five years ago when I'd often wake up gasping for air and had to take mints with me everywhere just to help me breathe... so I have healed quite a lot I think... not perfect but more than I was expecting. At least I can exercise now... like I never would've dreamed I could before, but on the flip side I am overweight now, which I never was as a smoker, so that's a bit of a constant battle.

I'm doing well, thanks.  Had another health scare a few years ago, which was one of many catalysts that let to me making some better health choices - I gave up alcohol and meat, and I'm trying to be more active.  I put on a few pounds when I quit drinking - yeah it's a constant battle.

I'm glad to hear you're doing well  

I've made similar changes... never thought I'd see the day when my favourite drink is plain old water, with the odd glass of orange juice or milk. But sugar was my problem, not alcohol.

End of the day sometimes your life ends up taking strange directions you never would have expected, but it's fine and you adapt

[Gawdzilla Sama]

True that. I thought I'd be found in the stacks at some university, several days dead. Best I was hoping for, to be a ghost of legend.

[FrustratedFool]

It seems that people here don't see the aesthetic appeal of smoking because they can't separate it from the health impacts. That's totally valid, of course. I don't smoke anything except the occasional cigar, and haven't returned to smoking cigarettes, because of the health issues.

Perhaps a more interesting question to ask would be: if smoking was entirely health neutral, would it seem cool and aesthetically pleasing then, or would it remain the same?

To me, I think the aesthetic quality derives partly from the smoke itself, partly from the media portrayals of smokers (esp in older movies), partly from the ritualised elements that surround it, partly from its social rebelliousness and death-drive factor, and mostly from the way it provides ways of having subtle non-verbal communication within discourse and increases the silent pauses in conversation. In the right hands, smoking then becomes a social and conversational tool.

I can't think of anything that replaces smoking in those aspects - chewing gum, for example, doesn't have the same social uses or aesthetic quality, imho.

I'd like to find a healthy alternative.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It seems that people here don't see the aesthetic appeal of smoking because they can't separate it from the health impacts.  That's totally valid, of course.  I don't smoke anything except the occasional cigar, and haven't returned to smoking cigarettes, because of the health issues.

Perhaps a more interesting question to ask would be: if smoking was entirely health neutral, would it seem cool and aesthetically pleasing then, or would it remain the same?

To me, I think the aesthetic quality derives partly from the smoke itself, partly from the media portrayals of smokers (esp in older movies), partly from the ritualised elements that surround it, partly from its social rebelliousness and death-drive factor, and mostly from the way it provides ways of having subtle non-verbal communication within discourse and increases the silent pauses in conversation.  In the right hands, smoking then becomes a social and conversational tool.

I can't think of anything that replaces smoking in those aspects - chewing gum, for example, doesn't have the same social uses or aesthetic quality, imho.

I'd like to find a healthy alternative.

I don’t see smoking as aesthetically appealing at all. All health aspects aside, the act of smoking looks idiotic - people look better when they aren’t wreathed in smoke. As The Sons Of The Pioneers put it:

Cigareets is a blot on the whole human race
A man is a monkey with one in his face.
That’s my definition, I tell you dear brother -
A fire on one end and a fool on the other.

As for your cigars, I’ve never smelled cigar smoke that didn’t stink worse than an Abo’s armpit.

Boru

[Belacqua]

It seems that people here don't see the aesthetic appeal of smoking because they can't separate it from the health impacts.  That's totally valid, of course.  I don't smoke anything except the occasional cigar, and haven't returned to smoking cigarettes, because of the health issues.

Perhaps a more interesting question to ask would be: if smoking was entirely health neutral, would it seem cool and aesthetically pleasing then, or would it remain the same?

To me, I think the aesthetic quality derives partly from the smoke itself, partly from the media portrayals of smokers (esp in older movies), partly from the ritualised elements that surround it, partly from its social rebelliousness and death-drive factor, and mostly from the way it provides ways of having subtle non-verbal communication within discourse and increases the silent pauses in conversation.  In the right hands, smoking then becomes a social and conversational tool.

I can't think of anything that replaces smoking in those aspects - chewing gum, for example, doesn't have the same social uses or aesthetic quality, imho.

I'd like to find a healthy alternative.

I was in art school way back before smoking became socially unacceptable. It was definitely a significant part of conversations. The way the teacher would light up when he settled down to talk, and inhale while he's listening, and wave the cigarette around for emphasis. It was all a little dance that we did that had meaning. Stamping the butt out on the floor of the classroom was making a point. Obviously it was less of a thing in lecture classes, but one-on-one it was ritualistic. 

No doubt a lot of this came from media examples. This was still back when the hard-drinking death-defying genius was a thing people believed in. The ideal was to be a New York expressionist or a Parisian intellectual. Those images were cool to us. 

But as you say, the "social rebelliousness and death-drive factor" has always been important. 

Maybe you've heard of Edward Bernays. He was Sigmund Freud's nephew, but moved to America and became the first great ad man. One of his greatest coups was to associate smoking with women's liberation. He paid prominent libbers to smoke in public, and got people calling cigarettes "freedom torches." Before that it was low-class for women to smoke, but he enlarged the market hugely by creating the image that smoking=liberation.

And I think this image is still probably the main factor in why people smoke -- in fact the more the normies scold smoking, the more it will be attractive to some people. The people who pass judgement and scold maybe don't realize how unpleasant they sound. Shaking their fingers and saying "get that stuff away from me." I'd rather be a smoker than someone who goes around wrinkling up his nose at everything he disapproves of. 

"Live fast die young" used to be considered a possible choice. As atheists, we normally believe that there is no transcendental rule saying that a long healthy life is the only acceptable choice.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It seems that people here don't see the aesthetic appeal of smoking because they can't separate it from the health impacts.  That's totally valid, of course.  I don't smoke anything except the occasional cigar, and haven't returned to smoking cigarettes, because of the health issues.

Perhaps a more interesting question to ask would be: if smoking was entirely health neutral, would it seem cool and aesthetically pleasing then, or would it remain the same?

To me, I think the aesthetic quality derives partly from the smoke itself, partly from the media portrayals of smokers (esp in older movies), partly from the ritualised elements that surround it, partly from its social rebelliousness and death-drive factor, and mostly from the way it provides ways of having subtle non-verbal communication within discourse and increases the silent pauses in conversation.  In the right hands, smoking then becomes a social and conversational tool.

I can't think of anything that replaces smoking in those aspects - chewing gum, for example, doesn't have the same social uses or aesthetic quality, imho.

I'd like to find a healthy alternative.

I was in art school way back before smoking became socially unacceptable. It was definitely a significant part of conversations. The way the teacher would light up when he settled down to talk, and inhale while he's listening, and wave the cigarette around for emphasis. It was all a little dance that we did that had meaning. Stamping the butt out on the floor of the classroom was making a point. Obviously it was less of a thing in lecture classes, but one-on-one it was ritualistic. 

No doubt a lot of this came from media examples. This was still back when the hard-drinking death-defying genius was a thing people believed in. The ideal was to be a New York expressionist or a Parisian intellectual. Those images were cool to us. 

But as you say, the "social rebelliousness and death-drive factor" has always been important. 

Maybe you've heard of Edward Bernays. He was Sigmund Freud's nephew, but moved to America and became the first great ad man. One of his greatest coups was to associate smoking with women's liberation. He paid prominent libbers to smoke in public, and got people calling cigarettes "freedom torches." Before that it was low-class for women to smoke, but he enlarged the market hugely by creating the image that smoking=liberation.

And I think this image is still probably the main factor in why people smoke -- in fact the more the normies scold smoking, the more it will be attractive to some people. The people who pass judgement and scold maybe don't realize how unpleasant they sound. Shaking their fingers and saying "get that stuff away from me." I'd rather be a smoker than someone who goes around wrinkling up his nose at everything he disapproves of. 

"Live fast die young" used to be considered a possible choice. As atheists, we normally believe that there is no transcendental rule saying that a long healthy life is the only acceptable choice.

It’s not a matter of simple disapproval or even of the health of smokers. Even if non-smokers are never exposed to secondhand smoke, it still costs them - it’s a strain on healthcare resources and raises health insurance premiums. Even more than alcohol and drug use, smoking is a social ill. What should I have to pay for your voluntary emphysema?

Smokers should rightly be treated as pariahs.

Boru

[zebo-the-fat]

Nothing nice or attractive about smoking, and the idiots who cover themselves in huge clouds of white smoke from vapes look even sillier... of course that's just my opinion, if you think someone looks good coverd in smoke and stinking that's up to you.

[Belacqua]

Nothing nice or attractive about smoking [...]

The empirical evidence indicates that there must be something nice or attractive about smoking to all those who start. Otherwise they wouldn't start. 

What happens later on may be different, but at the beginning it must be nice or attractive.

Whether this positive quality is chemical, social, or symbolic none of us here can really say. But all those attractions are real attractions.