Posts: 7031
Threads: 250
Joined: March 4, 2011
Reputation:
78
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 21, 2011 at 3:53 pm
(April 21, 2011 at 3:20 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (April 20, 2011 at 4:32 pm)Cinjin Cain Wrote: How does that remotely address my statement?? What are you even talking about?? What fantasy of mine???? You did not even come close to responding to my actual question nor did you even bother to include it in your rebutal. Straw man bashing -- REALLY????
I'll try it this way.
Do you believe that your god is willfully allowing those poeple a lifetime of suffering for some unknowable plan of his making?
Yes or No? Simple question. No fantasy. No talking in circles (which you're good at). No sidestepping. No answering for the masses. Just you and your belief. Yes or No? Hi Cinjin
What I was trying to point out about your statement, which I agree doesn't look clear now... is that you jump from God loving everyone equally to God apparently NOT loving all equally ~ by choosing to punish some.
I personally don't believe that God does this. This is what I'm saying about your insistence.. that you repeated twice above ignoring my statements to the contrary. If you want to continue to pursue this understanding of god, then I'm afraid you won't be addressing me, or what I understand to be the correct interpretation of Christianity. I'm not about to defend a belief that I don't hold and don't think is correct.
So to try to answer your new question, or re phrased question... [Do you believe that your god is willfully allowing those poeple a lifetime of suffering for some unknowable plan of his making?]
Gods plan that you're addressing I equate with the natural order (we all know the scope of that)... it's just how things are. This is the setup, the creation, the way the cosmos is ordered. The way that things suffer as part of life. Nothing mysterious there.
I understand God to be creator. Divine spark. Originator. Positive force. What goes against God... negativity, death, destruction...... isn't God. It's anti God.
So.... no. For those reasons.
There we go. An answer. Thank you.
So since your answer is 'No', God is not allowing them to suffer (which, being a Deist I actually agree with), than you don't believe that the christian god is everywhere watching over everyone and everything correct?
Because obiviously if he was everywhere, watching over everything than he would clearly be allowing these people to suffer.
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 21, 2011 at 4:34 pm
Hi Cinjin
God never sits deciding who gets bad stuff and who gets good stuff. Such stuff is the result of this cosmic order we inhabit. God initiated the positivity. Not God is the negativity. As an active God, God sits on his throne running everything.
God doesn't stop the suffering (he allows it, he ordered it (this natural order)), but God isn't choosing to cause suffering.
Posts: 7031
Threads: 250
Joined: March 4, 2011
Reputation:
78
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 21, 2011 at 4:44 pm
(April 21, 2011 at 4:34 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Hi Cinjin
God never sits deciding who gets bad stuff and who gets good stuff. Such stuff is the result of this cosmic order we inhabit. God initiated the positivity. Not God is the negativity. As an active God, God sits on his throne running everything.
God doesn't stop the suffering (he allows it, he ordered it (this natural order)), but God isn't choosing to cause suffering.
How very Deistic of you. With some exception of course.
At any rate, an atheist might debate that if he runs everything, and he allows all things, such as face tumors and tsunamis, that he by proxy causes suffering for some unknowable plan. But I'll offer a truce since that is not my argument to bear. 
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 21, 2011 at 6:59 pm
(April 21, 2011 at 4:34 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Hi Cinjin
God never sits deciding who gets bad stuff and who gets good stuff. Such stuff is the result of this cosmic order we inhabit. God initiated the positivity. Not God is the negativity. As an active God, God sits on his throne running everything.
God doesn't stop the suffering (he allows it, he ordered it (this natural order)), but God isn't choosing to cause suffering. Why couldn't god foresee this suffering and come up with a different plan? The way you make it sound is that there are physical laws that even god must abide by. If he is god, he could just change the laws. If god is capable of stopping the suffering but doesn't then he is responsible. I know that some people believe that suffering is god's way of testing and bringing about enlightenment, but then why the varying degrees of suffering? Why would god test some more than others?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 8781
Threads: 26
Joined: March 15, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 22, 2011 at 12:13 am
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2011 at 12:32 am by Godscreated.)
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Posts: 7031
Threads: 250
Joined: March 4, 2011
Reputation:
78
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 22, 2011 at 12:39 am
Posts: 12231
Threads: 324
Joined: April 14, 2011
Reputation:
140
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 22, 2011 at 4:59 am
(April 22, 2011 at 12:13 am)Godschild Wrote: I worship a God who is loving and I understand how His love works within this world which gives me the ability and desire to worship Him. You on the other hand and that goes for Nepo and Thor have no idea of Gods love or who He is so it only make sence that you believe the way you do and that is sad.
hahahahaha man this is quality shit
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 22, 2011 at 5:12 am
Cheers Cinjin & respect. Our beliefs seem similar; it'd be good to flash that out some time 
(April 21, 2011 at 6:59 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: Why couldn't god foresee this suffering and come up with a different plan? The way you make it sound is that there are physical laws that even god must abide by. If he is god, he could just change the laws. If god is capable of stopping the suffering but doesn't then he is responsible. I know that some people believe that suffering is god's way of testing and bringing about enlightenment, but then why the varying degrees of suffering? Why would god test some more than others? God doesn't have to follow those laws. God arranged it that way and sits directing it like the pilot flying Moya in Farscape. God could have physically constructed another cosmos with no suffering. All we know is that this isn't it.
Suffering does lead to empathy; perspective. The natural laws are indiscriminate. It's what makes our world go around.
Posts: 12231
Threads: 324
Joined: April 14, 2011
Reputation:
140
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 22, 2011 at 5:27 am
(April 22, 2011 at 5:12 am)fr0d0 Wrote: (April 21, 2011 at 6:59 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: Why couldn't god foresee this suffering and come up with a different plan? The way you make it sound is that there are physical laws that even god must abide by. If he is god, he could just change the laws. If god is capable of stopping the suffering but doesn't then he is responsible. I know that some people believe that suffering is god's way of testing and bringing about enlightenment, but then why the varying degrees of suffering? Why would god test some more than others? God doesn't have to follow those laws. God arranged it that way and sits directing it like the pilot flying Moya in Farscape. God could have physically constructed another cosmos with no suffering. All we know is that this isn't it.
Suffering does lead to empathy; perspective. The natural laws are indiscriminate. It's what makes our world go around.
so you're saying frodo that you believe god knowingly made the universe the way it is, WITH the suffering of so many people? and that makes it ok? because thats just the way it is?
man what a shit outlook. don't you think it's your right to question this? surely by god giving you freedom of thought you are entitled to be outraged by such suffering?
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: Who's God did this?!?
April 22, 2011 at 5:44 am
You seem confused Nap. You've already admitted that yours is a shit outlook. My outlook is positive because it is rooted in the belief in a positive force. A force for good.
Of course we have the right to question it and grieve where necessary. You can't seem to reconcile the cruelty of nature where I can. How does that make mine a shit outlook?
|
