Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: September 18, 2024, 6:40 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Theists, provide your arguments for God.
#11
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
(August 4, 2024 at 2:01 am)Paleophyte Wrote:
(August 4, 2024 at 12:11 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: You can listen to the Christian radio...

I would rather file my teeth off on concrete.

But their songs have such a nice beat and are easy to dance to.



I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
Reply
#12
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
The observed inter-dependent of any parts of universe implied the changing form/qualities of parts of the universe that did not coming from each parts of universe itself independently. 
The changing form/qualities of those parts describing that there were previous attributes/qualities/conditions turned to later attributes/qualities/conditions. 
So, there was beginning of those parts. 
Hence, universe is not eternal. 
It started to form, hence there is starter/creator/designer.
Reply
#13
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
A beginning does not imply a creator. Try again.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Reply
#14
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
A changing..is not a beginning ..and certainly not of "the universe" which would still be "the universe" no matter what configuration it's various parts were in. That's what the universe is...everything, however it is. Thus...it's pretty rough to state that your "beginning" is just a changing...even if a beginning needs a creator..which, as above, it does not.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#15
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
Gosh, I've never seen anything like this on this forum. Thanks for opening such an original and inviting topic.

Reply
#16
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
(August 6, 2024 at 11:06 pm)soulcalm17 Wrote: The observed inter-dependent of any parts of universe implied the changing form/qualities of parts of the universe that did not coming from each parts of universe itself independently. 
The changing form/qualities of those parts describing that there were previous attributes/qualities/conditions turned to later attributes/qualities/conditions. 
So, there was beginning of those parts. 
Hence, universe is not eternal. 
It started to form, hence there is starter/creator/designer.

'Will no one rid me of this meddlesome Watchmaker?' - Henry II, 1170

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Reply
#17
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
(August 6, 2024 at 11:06 pm)soulcalm17 Wrote: The observed inter-dependent of any parts of universe implied the changing form/qualities of parts of the universe that did not coming from each parts of universe itself independently. 
The changing form/qualities of those parts describing that there were previous attributes/qualities/conditions turned to later attributes/qualities/conditions. 
So, there was beginning of those parts. 
Hence, universe is not eternal. 
It started to form, hence there is starter/creator/designer.
The only part of that I understood were these assumptions:

1. So, there was beginning of those parts. 

NB there is a point of origin past we currently can't understand. A beginning is the point in time or space at which something begins, since both time and space are characteristics of the universe we currently observe, beginning seems like an inadequate word. 

2. Hence, universe is not eternal. 

Nope, your using a false equivalence, by equating the universe we currently observe with what existed before its point of origin, and we don't know what that was, so it is unevidenced assumption on your part, that the universe might can't be eternal, and simply (for example) have existed in some other form.

3. It started to form,      Tut Tut Tut Tut Tut Tut Tut Tut Tut Tut  hence there is starter/creator/designer.

Dear oh dear, that's the clumsiest non-sequitur I've seen, and that includes your contradictory debacle in the KCA thread, where in the space of just two posts you went from a straw man decrying atheists for believing in magic, to championing magic as the core of your beliefs in a deity. 

It also looks suspiciously like you're denying the antecedent, either everything has a natural cause contained within the physical universe, or there is supernatural causation that forms no part of it, you can't premise the first, then claim the second logically follows. We observe the first, there is no objective evidence the second is possible.
Reply
#18
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
(August 7, 2024 at 7:02 am)Sheldon Wrote:  hence there is starter

In the Aristotelian/Thomist First Cause arguments, the English word "cause" is an unfortunate translation of the Greek word αἰτία. This Greek word has quite a different meaning from the English word "cause." 

The αἰτία of X are all the things that must be the case in order for X to be the case. Some of these may be what Aristotle called the "efficient cause," but others include simply the conditions necessary.

So for example in Lawrence Krauss's book on why there is something rather than nothing, he argues that given the laws of nature as they are, it is inevitable that the universe would exist as it does. In Aristotelian terms, the laws of nature are the αἰτία of the universe, if Krauss is correct. It sounds funny, maybe, to say that the laws of nature cause the universe, but that's just because "cause" is such a bad translation. 

By definition, every contingent thing in the universe has some αἰτία on which its existence depends. (That's just tautological.) Everything that moves and changes is contingent. 

What logical fallacy would you apply to demonstrate that the above description is faulty?
Reply
#19
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
(August 7, 2024 at 7:32 am)Belacqua Wrote:
(August 7, 2024 at 7:02 am)Sheldon Wrote:  hence there is starter

that the above description
Not relevant to my post, the 4 words you quoted were from someone else, and even that lacks context.
Reply
#20
RE: Theists, provide your arguments for God.
The intellectual strikes again.

(not Sheldon)
[Image: MmQV79M.png]  
                                      
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Theists: What is your stance on evolution? Agnostic1 118 11996 March 27, 2022 at 8:48 pm
Last Post: The Architect Of Fate
  Theists, tell me, an atheist, why your God has neglected to show himself to me? ignoramus 75 26750 March 5, 2021 at 6:49 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  If artificial super intelligence erases humans, will theists see this as God's plan? Face2face 24 5904 March 5, 2021 at 6:40 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Am I right to assume, that theists cannot prove that I am not god? Vast Vision 116 36024 March 5, 2021 at 6:39 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Is God weaker than theists imagine, and is mankind stronger? invalid 6 2539 March 5, 2021 at 6:38 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Theists: What do you mean when you say that God is 'perfect'? Angrboda 103 19307 March 5, 2021 at 6:35 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Are there any theists here who think God wants, or will take care of, Global Warming? Duty 16 3919 January 19, 2020 at 11:50 am
Last Post: Smedders
  10 Syllogistic arguments for Gods existence Otangelo 84 12696 January 14, 2020 at 5:59 pm
Last Post: Abaddon_ire
  Theists, please describe how you experience your god I_am_not_mafia 161 18892 June 15, 2018 at 9:37 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  How do religious people react to their own arguments? Vast Vision 60 17700 July 9, 2017 at 2:16 am
Last Post: Astonished



Users browsing this thread: 15 Guest(s)