No such thing as a "true" Christian

[Watson]

Under what definition of Christianity?

[Minimalist]

Under what definition of Christianity?

The Catholic Way of Salvation
James McCarthy
What exactly does the Roman Catholic Church teach is the way of salvation? A popular post-Vatican II catechism provides the following summary of the Church’s teaching.

Question What is necessary to be saved?

Answer You have to be brought into spiritual contact with that saving death of Jesus by faith and Baptism and loyal membership in His Church, by love of God and neighbor proved by obedience to His commandments, by the other Sacraments especially Holy Communion, by prayer and good works and by final perseverance, that is, preserving God’s friendship and grace until death.*

Traditionally, Protestants believe salvation is a gift of God, granted by faith. On the day of judgment, all people will be resurrected, those who have believed and trusted in Christ to a life of blessedness in the presence of God, and those who have rejected God's gift to a place of torment and separation from God.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught that the 'born again experience, the right to be a child of God, belongs only to a elite group consisting of only 144,000 followers. Christ is their mediator only and they are the only ones going to heaven. This group is known as the anointed class who have being gathered out of all nations since Pentecost. "Only a limited number are born again. The great crowd does not need to be born again. Their life is earthly, not heavenly."

The Mormon church teaches two kinds of salvation, neither of which can be found in the Bible. One of these kinds of salvation is an unconditional or general salvation which comes by grace alone without any obedience to gospel law and consists in the mere fact of being resurrected after death. The Latter Day Saint believes that all people will automatically be resurrected from the grave. This convenient belief down plays the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. They choose to believe in different levels of heaven or glory rather than in the existence of a hell, therefore the savior would seem to be of no real importance.

The second kind of salvation taught by the Mormon Church is a conditional or individual salvation. This salvation also comes by grace, but requires gospel obedience, is based on works and consists of reaching a higher level of heaven, the highest being the Celestial Kingdom of God.

For a Muslim, the purpose of life is to live in a way that is pleasing to Allah so that one may gain Paradise. It is believed that at puberty, an account of each person's deeds is opened, and this will be used at the Day of Judgment to determine his eternal fate. The Qur'an also suggests a doctrine of divine predestination. {1}

The Muslim doctrine of salvation is that unbelievers (kuffar, literally "those who are ungrateful") and sinners will be condemned, but genuine repentance results in Allah's forgiveness and entrance into Paradise upon death.

Scientologists believe that they will return to an embodied existence after they end this present life and will be able to continue to work for the goals of Scientology of freeing the planet.

Exclusionist bastards, all of them. Placed beside the others Scientology does not look any more stupid than the rest of your absurd fairy tales.

[Watson]

Sorry, but I'm not a Catholic, a Protestant, a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon, a Muslim or a Scientologist. Try again.

[reverendjeremiah]

Under what definition of Christianity?

I hope that the members of this forum can appreciate the Irony of a Christian asking this question on a thread titled "No such thing as a "true" Christian"

Holy shit...I think that post has caused the Goblins to come out again

<---Goblin loves Watsons post!

[Godscreated]

There's no such thing as a true Christian, because if you ask all Christians about what other denominations believe, they'll tell you that they're not true Christians. For example, ask Protestants about Catholics, and ask Catholics about Protestants.

I'm a Southern Baptist and I know many Catholics that are saved and most of my fellow Baptist would agree.

rev.J the word follow does not mean you must do, it means that it is possible.

I find it funny that codschild is telling me what the bible means, right after he "knows people are saved"

How do you know they are saved son? Looked in the book of life yourself? Jesus whispered it in your ears?

You know what you just did son? You just made a judgement, the same exact type of judgement the ten commandments prohibits your ilk from doing.

This "he's saved, he isnt" egotistical crap from the followers is one of the biggest reasons I left Southern Baptist religion LOOOOONNNNGGGG before I became an atheist. In otherwords, I realized southern baptistry was full of horse shit, mean, and egotistical at a young age. My mom kept pushing it on me and I DISPISED that church, and damn near all of the members in it..cocky sons of bitches they were.

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Of course, that said, it is believed that the original version of Mark 16 ended at verse eight, and that the next twelve verses were later additions.

Indeed - the earliest manuscripts we have don't include Mark 16:9-20, the language is thoroughly non-Markan, and it would be very strange for the gospel to end at verse 8. Most likely, the end of the scroll was simply lost (this was a common problem, because of the way scrolls were made - in fact, there are a number of important variants at the beginning of Mark's gospel too).

Look..I say we pick and choose. I say me and you pick and choose what we think is legitimate in Mark and consider that canonical and historical. The other stuff we can just assume it is symbolic and either ignore it or brush it off the table. If anyone brings up the verses we dont like, or if they bring up the last verses of Mark, then we will say somthing like "Hey man, thoses verses were not god inspired. You should look to Jesus' death and resurection in the book of Mark instead..those are accurate, historical verses..."

..or maybe we should just steer people away from the book of Mark as a whole.

Yeah, 'cause how dare we forgive people for the things they've done if they're truly sorry, right?

Really? Is that what you do? Oh yeah, you will forgive them, unless they dont believe what you believe, then you think they deserve to be tortured in fire for all eternity. So dont even try that one. Dont even try to water it down.

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All arguments from emotion Strongbad, which is a poor basis for justice. You may never forgive a personal injustice... that isn't to say that you shouldn't.

Really? And you dont use arguments from emotion? Are you some kind of computer? Are you inhuman? Exactly how can you come to a "faith" in a god through logic? I find it EXTREMELY hypocritical of a god believer pointing fingers and complaining about other people using arguments from emotion..its bad enough we have these mr.spock atheists on this site... As far as I am concerned, arguments from emotion are on the table.. Feel free to cry if I decide your emotional argument is nothing more than being a crybaby.

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No judgement on my part rev.j, it is you who's judging others. Yes I know what Christ had to say about those who are church goers that believe they are saved when they are not. Christ said that we true christians would know them by their fruit (works). Paul also told many in the churches he started to beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing. Paul writes directly about some of these people. So your twisting of scripture gets you nowhere with me, your small mind just can not comprehend scriptures. You are not the all knowing one that you want others to believe you are. To bad you left the church, if you had stuck around you might have learned a thing or two. If that's why you left it was a petty reason.

You see rev.j Christ and Paul both give us reason to watch out for those who are not saved and teach false doctrine, someone like you.

[Zen Badger]

your small mind just can not comprehend scriptures.

What exactly is there to comprehend?

The scriptures(indeed the bible) is just a load of old hooey designed to keep the weak minded and credulous in line.

Simply put, religion is the emotional refuge for those that can't deal with the fact that the universe at large doesn't care about them.

[Godscreated]

Yes I do know why and how a person is saved, if I didn't then how could I be saved. I said they were not saved. They may have the knowledge to be saved but they have not accept it in their hearts, just knowing in this case does not get you all the way there. Obviously they are not.

That's what I stated isn't it. Yes to your first question. The crimes are not against man they are against God and they are called sin and the judgement is for unrepented sin because there was no acceptance of the One who died so we could be forgiven.

It would seem that your arrogance is only exceeded by your capacity for delusion. Somehow, you have become the arbiter who decides who is saved and who is not.

Crimes against god? I'm sure you would have no problem explaining to the mother of a child who was raped by a priest that this was not a crime against the child, but a "sin" against god which is also forgiveable if the priest has the correct thoughts.

Your belief that one can accept something "in their heart" is patently absurd. Your heart is a muscle that pumps blood; it is not capable of thought. All of your delusions of salvation occur in your small brain.

It's obvious that you read a christians post and have predetermined what one has posted. Tell me something Sbad why is it that when one experiences a lost love that the pain is in the middle of ones chest, that is if you have human emotions of this type.

Yes the physical and psychological crime is aganist the child and all those who care about that child, the spiritual crime (sin) is aganist God. Sorry if I seemed to have left out the human victims I did not mean to.

Correct thoughts have nothing to do with forgiveness, repentance has everything to do with forgiveness. When a priest rapes a child be it boy or girl that priest is not a christian worthy of forgiveness because in my opinion the priest is not a christian, the priest never received Christ into his life.

[reverendjeremiah]

No judgement on my part rev.j, it is you who's judging others.

Right..you know who is going to spend eternity in paradise and who will be burning in hell forever, yet Iam the one being judgemental. Im open minded enough to say that your god may possibly exist, and if he does exist, then he does not need your PERMISSION to do anything godschild. Seems to be something you fundies have a hard time understanding about an all powerful god. He can do whatever the fuck he wants regardless of what you say. So if he thinks you are a dick for hanging out on atheist forums then he will surely punish you for it, or maybe he will forgive you. Maybe I made him laugh, so he forgave me. Maybe he will only put people in hell fore for just a few seconds, then forgive them once he see them writhe in pain.

Now..here is where you show how judgemental you are by stating you know exactly what god wants, and what god will do, and you know some who will be saved and others who will not...as if the majority of this board doesnt already sneer at you for being a fucking hypocrite.

Yes I know what Christ had to say about those who are church goers that believe they are saved when they are not. Christ said that we true christians would know them by their fruit (works). Paul also told many in the churches he started to beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing. Paul writes directly about some of these people. So your twisting of scripture gets you nowhere with me, your small mind just can not comprehend scriptures. You are not the all knowing one that you want others to believe you are. To bad you left the church, if you had stuck around you might have learned a thing or two. If that's why you left it was a petty reason.

See, there is another I really dont care about you, or other Baptists. They care more for the words of Paul than of Jesus. Quite frankly you are a Paulian, and they tend to be the most hateful and ignorant type of Gentiles in my opinion. I dont twsit scripture with you because a few weeks ago I told myself that I would never post another bible verse for you again, nor would I waste my time sorting through your crappy book of myths to prove it is a crappy book of myths. I left the church because of hateful shit fucks like you. Quite frankly I am offended that you would accuse me of thinking myself "all knowing" when I have the word "Absurdist" right next to my pic, and if you actually READ what absurdism was you would know it is the EXACT OPPOSITE of being a know it all jerk. In fact I clearly state that NOBODY will probably ever find an inherent meaning of life, or an inherent form of government. They can still try, but it will probably be fruitless. How..the FUCK... is that being a know it all? I left the baptist church because I grew tired and angry of its members acting the way you are acting right now, self righteous, judgemental, holier than thou pricks.

You see rev.j Christ and Paul both give us reason to watch out for those who are not saved and teach false doctrine, someone like you.

OMG, Im shaking in my fucking boots. Your imaginary Christ and Paul told you to watch out for people who might tell you that the bible is a book of myths? What a shock! A cult book advising its members to seperate themselves from non-cultists? Say it aint so?

[Minimalist]

Sorry, but I'm not a Catholic, a Protestant, a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon, a Muslim or a Scientologist. Try again.

Yes you are. It's all the same silly shit.

[Godscreated]

[/size]

As long as they have accepted Christ as the Son of God and repented of their sin and continue to live for Him then yes they are saved.

But isn't that what 100% of Christians claim about themselves? I don't know many who say they haven't accepted Jesus and haven't repented of their sins.

Many of the so called saved church goers will say that they have received Christ into their lives just so they want feel out of place. Many church goers know how to answer the question when asked about salvation because they heard the answer many times before. The problem is they never really understood what receiveing Christ into their lives means. I've heard many people say that they thought they knew what salvation was and that they had received it, but later in their lives realized that they had been fooling themselves. I know this personally because I was one of them before I realized that one must have a heart change that comes along with salvation. There are also those who go to church because it is politically, personally,financially and ect. expedent for them and they will say they are saved. I've even heard people say they were saved because the church gave them a Bible. So many go to church with their ears closed and even more go with their hearts closed. Many want the benifits of salvation without the relationship with Christ, to much responsibility for them and it just dosen't work that way.

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL!!!