In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus

[John 6IX Breezy]

Odd that a perfectly empathetic god might disparage doubt and urge faith, in that case. Or use fear of Hell to have to convince folks to believe, for that matter. Or use the promise of everlasting life, beyond that.

Well, you already know I disagree with such caricatures, so agree to disagree.

[The Grand Nudger]

Here we go again, calling the christian message a caricature. Not because this has been a problem for christianity, quite the reverse, but that it doesn't fit with some doomed argument that seeks to deny the centrality of the faith because contemporary secular critics deem these things undesirable.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Odd that a perfectly empathetic god might disparage doubt and urge faith, in that case. Or use fear of Hell to have to convince folks to believe, for that matter. Or use the promise of everlasting life, beyond that.

Well, you already know I disagree with such caricatures, so agree to disagree.

No -- his own avatar expressed doubts about his own mission, according to your own holy book. How is it that this one segment of a triune god doesn't understand his place in affairs? And why might his doubts be fair but human doubts be cause for punishment?

I don't agree to disagree. I really want an answer to this conundrum, in plain English, or if you have none, to simply admit that, again in plain English. This is not my dilemma. Explicate this.

[John 6IX Breezy]

No -- his own avatar expressed doubts about his own mission, according to your own holy book. How is it that this one segment of a triune god doesn't understand his place in affairs? And why might his doubts be fair but human doubts be cause for punishment?

I don't agree to disagree. I really want an answer to this conundrum, in plain English, or if you have none, to simply admit that, again in plain English. This is not my dilemma. Explicate this.

I don't see doubt as something punishable in Scripture. Certain contexts probably give it different meanings, sometimes good sometimes bad. But doubt is a normal part of human existence. What you do with doubt, and your motives for it, are more significant.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't see doubt as something punishable in Scripture. Certain contexts probably give it different meanings, sometimes good sometimes bad. But doubt is a normal part of human existence. What you do with doubt, and your motives for it, are more significant.

Hebrews 11:6: And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

[bolding added -- Thump]

And remember John 3:16. The contrapositive to it is that whosoever does not have faith in Jesus as the "Son of God" shall not have everlasting life. It is implicit in the verse.

Do you think doubt and faith are compatible?

[h4ym4n]

 

It seems to me that a God would have some over-arching plan, instead of it being an arbitrary death for some trivial reason.  Did Jesus simply annoy the Roman authorities with his teachings when he should have known better?  That makes no sense within the over-arching concept of an all-knowing, all-powerful, perfectly-good deity.  God should have had a better plan unless such a death was required for some purpose.

There's a lot that can be said here. I think a point that often gets overlooked is that Jesus doesn't solely play the role of sacrifice, he also plays the role of a living example. By that I mean he takes on human flesh to prove to us that it is possible for us to live a sinless life. Because it's one thing for an all powerful God to mandate perfection from up in the clouds, and another to put that power aside and physically show us how it's done. To me that's a more interesting subject than the cross.

Why does jesus pick and choose who to give the majik of heaven to @John 6IX Breezy

Seem like a real dick move for a wanabe god.

Matthew 13:10-17
New International Version

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
    you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
    they hardly hear with their ears,
    and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2013&version=NIV][/url]

[Alan V]

I don't see doubt as something punishable in Scripture. Certain contexts probably give it different meanings, sometimes good sometimes bad. But doubt is a normal part of human existence. What you do with doubt, and your motives for it, are more significant.

Hebrews 11:6: And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

[bolding added -- Thump]

And remember John 3:16. The contrapositive to it is that whosoever does not have faith in Jesus as the "Son of God" shall not have everlasting life. It is implicit in the verse.

Do you think doubt and faith are compatible?

I guess John is talking about temporary doubts, and believing as an act of will as the cure.  So suppression of doubts would be considered a virtue.

He can correct me if I am wrong.

That most certainly leaves atheists beyond the pale, but we knew we were considered evil by many Christians for our lack of belief anyway.

[John 6IX Breezy]

Do you think doubt and faith are compatible?

Yes, I think doubt is integral to faith. I don't see faith as the absence of doubt but rather doubt as the context in which faith occurs. It almost doesn't make sense to have faith in the absence of doubt.

This is because faith isn't blind belief, it is trust. And trust requires a context where you have good reasons to trust, but not enough to achieve certainty. For example, trusting a friend: you've likely already built rapport with that person and have enough evidence to take them at their word, and yet trust is always required precisely because there is always uncertainty. They may intentionally betray you at any point and for any reason.

[John 6IX Breezy]

I guess John is talking about temporary doubts, and believing as an act of will as the cure.  So suppression of doubts would be considered a virtue.

Yes; but it's not so much that suppressing doubt is a virtue. It might be analogous to the idea that courage isn't the absence of fear but the ability to fear and still move forward.

[Alan V]

I guess John is talking about temporary doubts, and believing as an act of will as the cure.  So suppression of doubts would be considered a virtue.

Yes; but it's not so much that suppressing doubt is a virtue. It might be analogous to the idea that courage isn't the absence of fear but the ability to fear and still move forward.

In this context I should mention that we atheists have far too much experience with unreasonable theists to think relatively reasonable theists are generally representative.  

Many of us did, after all, grow up within religious communities.

So that begs the question of whether religious ideas are generally helpful or harmful to people.