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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 8:25 am
(May 1, 2025 at 1:34 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Constructing faiths which posit an afterlife is not a uniquely Christian thing. That indicates to me that positing an eternal afterlife is a selling-point for those faiths.
I'm not sure this helps your argument, because a selling-point does have to be unique in order to sell. So if the vast majority of the planet already believes in an afterlife of some kind, then there is nothing particularly unique about the belief in Christianity that voids the fear of death.
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 9:52 am
(This post was last modified: May 1, 2025 at 9:53 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(May 1, 2025 at 8:25 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: I'm not sure this helps your argument, because a selling-point does have to be unique in order to sell.
Says who? How many products use low price as a selling point?
And when other faiths posit afterlives, do they promise an impossibly pleasurable Heaven?
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 9:59 am
(May 1, 2025 at 8:25 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (May 1, 2025 at 1:34 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Constructing faiths which posit an afterlife is not a uniquely Christian thing. That indicates to me that positing an eternal afterlife is a selling-point for those faiths.
I'm not sure this helps your argument, because a selling-point does have to be unique in order to sell. So if the vast majority of the planet already believes in an afterlife of some kind, then there is nothing particularly unique about the belief in Christianity that voids the fear of death.
I agree that there is nothing particularly unique in christianity but geography plays a role here too. People born in Italy learn about christian take on afterlife first and ones born in Saudi Arabia learn about what islam preaches first. Other perspectives come later if at all. Uniqueness does not enter into play just simple factor of where on was born.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
Mikhail Bakunin.
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 11:08 am
(This post was last modified: May 1, 2025 at 11:15 am by John 6IX Breezy.)
(May 1, 2025 at 9:52 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: And when other faiths posit afterlives, do they promise an impossibly pleasurable Heaven?
I'm not sure Christianity has the most pleasurable heaven from a secular perspective. This is why I said earlier that for the Christian the appeal of heaven is Jesus, meaning you have to already have a belief and an interest in the person of Jesus to find heaven appealing.
Plenty of other religions have a much more exciting afterlife if all you care about is living long and not being too scared when you die.
(And btw, isn't it a common atheist argument that life would be boring and meaningless if it was eternal?)
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 11:52 am
(May 1, 2025 at 11:08 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (May 1, 2025 at 9:52 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: And when other faiths posit afterlives, do they promise an impossibly pleasurable Heaven?
I'm not sure Christianity has the most pleasurable heaven from a secular perspective. This is why I said earlier that for the Christian the appeal of heaven is Jesus, meaning you have to already have a belief and an interest in the person of Jesus to find heaven appealing.
Plenty of other religions have a much more exciting afterlife if all you care about is living long and not being too scared when you die.
(And btw, isn't it a common atheist argument that life would be boring and meaningless if it was eternal?)
Does jesus give everyone equal knowledge of heaven and all the secrets or just certain groups?
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 12:24 pm
(This post was last modified: May 1, 2025 at 12:26 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(May 1, 2025 at 11:08 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (May 1, 2025 at 9:52 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: And when other faiths posit afterlives, do they promise an impossibly pleasurable Heaven?
I'm not sure Christianity has the most pleasurable heaven from a secular perspective. This is why I said earlier that for the Christian the appeal of heaven is Jesus, meaning you have to already have a belief and an interest in the person of Jesus to find heaven appealing.
Plenty of other religions have a much more exciting afterlife if all you care about is living long and not being too scared when you die.
(And btw, isn't it a common atheist argument that life would be boring and meaningless if it was eternal?)
Why are you expecting Christians to adopt an atheist argument? I'm making these points from a Christian perspective because that's what you asked for -- why Christians believe, not what I believe nor why. It's called trying to be objective. You should think of it as "for the sake of argument".
You're starting to appear disingenuous here.
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 12:46 pm
Many Christians assume they're saved, regardless of whether that assumption is theologically sound or not. So I don't see the threat of hell as a counter-balance to the promise of heaven.
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 1:08 pm
(This post was last modified: May 1, 2025 at 1:08 pm by John 6IX Breezy.)
(May 1, 2025 at 12:46 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Many Christians assume they're saved, regardless of whether that assumption is theologically sound or not. So I don't see the threat of hell as a counter-balance to the promise of heaven.
I'm not sure that's true. I think only Pentacostals are known to have a "once saved always saved" theology. In the rest of Christianity salvation is always conditional, and sometimes painfully so. In fact, I think it can lead many to depression when not careful. You can see it in a lot of Christian hymns and prayers, this sense of being unworthy, self-deprication, and gloom.
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 1:33 pm
(This post was last modified: May 1, 2025 at 1:33 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(May 1, 2025 at 1:08 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (May 1, 2025 at 12:46 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Many Christians assume they're saved, regardless of whether that assumption is theologically sound or not. So I don't see the threat of hell as a counter-balance to the promise of heaven.
I'm not sure that's true. I think only Pentacostals are known to have a "once saved always saved" theology. In the rest of Christianity salvation is always conditional, and sometimes painfully so. In fact, I think it can lead many to depression when not careful. You can see it in a lot of Christian hymns and prayers, this sense of being unworthy, self-deprication, and gloom.
And that’s precisely why people believe in Jesus - belief in this mythic god-man offers them relief from their feelings of unworthiness, deprecation, and gloom. You can see it pointed out in scripture, Christian literature, Christian art, and so on.
To be fair, this is not unique to Christianity. Most religions prey on the unhappiness of their adherents.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
May 1, 2025 at 2:02 pm
(This post was last modified: May 1, 2025 at 2:10 pm by Alan V.)
(May 1, 2025 at 1:33 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Most religions prey on the unhappiness of their adherents.
Boru
While it is true that religious and philosophical ideas try to compensate people for their suffering, Christians sell another problem (original sin) before they sell the solution (belief in Jesus).
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