In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus

[Alan V]

Everybody naturally fears death when it comes knocking. What I reject is the idea that this fear is the reason people believe in Jesus, and that Christianity provides some kind of immunity from it. Jesus himself, in the garden of gethsemane, famously prays wanting to avoid the death and suffering he was about to endure, and then proceeds to die in the most horrific way possible. Christianity isn't the religion to join if you're trying escape the fear of death.

Jesus did offer a few nice moral precepts. The rest is a mess IMO, but I blame the writers and editors of the Bible rather than Jesus himself.

[Thumpalumpacus]

How you can assert that no Christian feels the fear of death, that's beyond my ken.

Everybody naturally fears death when it comes knocking. What I reject is the idea that this fear is the reason people believe in Jesus, and that Christianity provides some kind of immunity from it.

But that is actually its basic promise. Y'know, John 3:16 and all that. Many times at major American sporting events people would be waving signs simply stating "John 3:16" and nothing more ... because nothing more need be said. "Shall not perish, but have everlasting life" is pretty clear, and apparently was thought fairly compelling.

But I notice you didn't actually answer my point -- how you might know that all of the couple of billion Christians worldwide reject fear of death as a motivation. Did you poll them?

[John 6IX Breezy]

"Shall not perish, but have everlasting life" is pretty clear, and apparently was thought fairly compelling.

Yes, but John 3:16 is making a spiritual argument. There is no escaping physical death in the Bible—from dust we came and to dust we return. What the Bible does add is a post-death layer, which is heaven or hell. Now, it is definitely the case that the fear of hell does drive some people to Christianity. And Jonathan Edwards' Sinners in the hands of an angry God, is a good example of how some ministers do push on the fear of hell button intentionally. But even then, to say hell drives people to believe in Christianity is odd, since you have to first accept many Christian premises before believing in hell.

[Thumpalumpacus]

"Shall not perish, but have everlasting life" is pretty clear, and apparently was thought fairly compelling.

Yes, but John 3:16 is making a spiritual argument. There is no escaping physical death in the Bible—from dust we came and to dust we return. What the Bible does add is a post-death layer, which is heaven or hell. Now, it is definitely the case that the fear of hell does drive some people to Christianity. And Jonathan Edwards' Sinners in the hands of an angry God, is a good example of how some ministers do push on the fear of hell button intentionally. But even then, to say hell drives people to believe in Christianity is odd, since you have to first accept many Christian premises before believing in hell.

In the Christian conception of Hell, you still have everlasting life, only with eternal suffering. So if they're not selling fear of death, it seems apparent they're selling fear of suffering. Promising eternal bliss against that makes death more palatable, if nothing else, so long as one believes.

I appreciate that you admit that fear is a selling-point for Christianity, even if I may not have fingered the fear correctly (though I'm not sure that is the case).

[The Grand Nudger]

 since you have to first accept many Christian premises before believing in hell.

clearly not, since the christians themselves stole this idea from others whose premises they did not accept.

[Paleophyte]

You'll never meet a Christian that says they're a Christian because they fear death, that is a caricature found within atheist circles.

I've met Christians who claimed to be Christians because they feared death. I've had people try to convert me with the same tactic. And we all know that the whole hellfire and brimstone schtick only plays on that fear of death, as does the opposite reward of heaven.

[h4ym4n]

Why do you think Christians focus on eternal life, if not a fear of death?

The focus of Christians, as the name implies, is on Christ himself. His character, his story, that is what appeals to the Christian. Jesus is what makes heaven appealing to the Christian.

You'll never meet a Christian that says they're a Christian because they fear death, that is a caricature found within atheist circles.

It was trained out of you with ‘if I die before I wake’

Why do xian soldiers hide in foxholes when they know paradise is just a bullet away?

[John 6IX Breezy]

Why do xian soldiers hide in foxholes when they know paradise is just a bullet away?

Because I'm right, and Christianity does not provide immunity from the fear of death or the pain of dying.

[Angrboda]

Why do xian soldiers hide in foxholes when they know paradise is just a bullet away?

Because I'm right, and Christianity does not provide immunity from the fear of death or the pain of dying.

Immunity? Perhaps not, but that seems an unreasonable bar to expect. Does the promise of heaven and eternal bliss provide some insulation against thoughts of mortality. I think that's hard to deny.

[John 6IX Breezy]

Immunity? Perhaps not, but that seems an unreasonable bar to expect. Does the promise of heaven and eternal bliss provide some insulation against thoughts of mortality. I think that's hard to deny.

I can see that being the case in islamist sects, where the act of dying for your faith is what guarantees eternal bliss. But in Christianity there is no such guarantee. And hell is seen as a very possible outcome, even amongst the faithful. If thoughts of heaven help ease the fear of death, thoughts of hell certainly aggravate it.