US Strikes on Iran (Operation Epic Fury)

[Leonardo17]

Cross V Cross and Crescent V Crescent have also always been a thing.  The founder of islam was a damned warlord, and the popularizers of christianity were no slouch there either.  It's not especially bad or particularly uncommon when muslims kill muslims Leo, it's business as usual.  The idea that violence is better or worse if it's export or domestic is shaky in and of itself.  If you believed that their or your muslimness was or even should be some sort of talisman against predation.....ya might be more like the warlords and crusaders than you think.

Crusaders attacked more Byzantine cities than Muslims actually. You should watch this Neil DeGrasse Tyson comments on war (and a bit later) on rational beliefs triggering most wars. Atheist do not do war on one another. In science or philosophy our approach is usually “What you say is not true. What I say is true. Let me show you why…”
 
When you believe strongly in something that is difficult or impossible to prove, you need some other ways to get people to agree with you (indoctrinating them when they are very young, using modern brainwashing techniques on them or subduing them with brute force). 

Here is an interesting video on this subject:




 
I’ve never challenged these ideas. That’s how I see it too. But in my way of doing things you don’t say “In the name of God the most Gracious and most Merciful” and do this kind of thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_k...n_protests
 

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Today MBS has expressed his view that the US had to go on with its military campaign. Iranians have bombed Saudi oil fields even before October 2023. Even Israel + the US stopped the war today these Gulf countries would have to figure out on their own what to do with a half-insane regime as their northern neighbor.

+ The Iranian diaspora is still supporting this war. Iranians want this regime to be gone forever. No reform, no deal, they just want their country back (at least all of the ones I saw on TV).
 
/Sometimes I wonder if this recent pro-Iranian sentiment in many countries is not entirely the making of the Russo-Iranian propaganda machine.
 
I really have difficulty understanding some people sometimes

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17

I really have difficulty understanding some people sometimes 

I know precisely how you feel.

Boru

[Ivan Denisovich]

Sometimes I wonder if this recent pro-Iranian sentiment in many countries is not entirely the making of the Russo-Iranian propaganda machine.

Because it can't be that people have some actual morals and don't support wars of aggression. Fact that you're willing to condone whatever criminals like trump and netanyahu are doing does not mean that it is valid stance - it simply shows you have no morals and no respect for international law.

[Ivan Denisovich]

@Leonardo17

Nearly a full month into US President Donald Trump’s illegal war of choice in Iran, the International Committee of the Red Cross issued a statement Thursday expressing horror at the humanitarian catastrophe the deadly conflict has unleashed across the Middle East, with millions of civilians trapped in the crossfire.

“One month of hostilities has upended the lives of millions and sent shockwaves far beyond the region at a scale and speed that threatens to overwhelm the humanitarian response,” said the world-renowned organization, a three-time winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. “In just four weeks, thousands have lost their lives, including first responders and humanitarian workers. Hundreds of thousands have been uprooted. Essential infrastructure critical for the supply of energy, water, and health care has been damaged or destroyed. The use of heavy explosive weapons with wide area impact in urban settings has caused suffering and fear.”

The war, said the organization, is “eroding the foundations of civilian life in the Middle East.”

Still supporting the war, troll?

[Deesse23]

Leo thinks international law applies only to the "bad guys". He thinks it does not apply to the "good guys". He thinks if you are a "good guy", you can attack and invade "bad guys" countries at will. After all its for a greater good. It does not matter so much that in 4 weeks of aggression more civilians have been killed than the mullahs kill in an average year. Leo thinks is perfectly ok to kill people in order to liberate people. Sacrifices do have to be made but, after all, they have to be made by others. Thats why its ok to be sanctimonious and preach to others about what is "good" or not.

Netanyahus Israel and Trumps USA do have as much interest in the well-being and freedoms of iranian people than the Mullahs do: None.....probably less one could argue. To think otherwise is more than just naive. But here we are, and the most naive, uneducated and ignorant person on the forum felt compelled to create a thread suggesting that everybody else but him is wrong and mislead by propaganda. In many threads he has demonstrated his complete ignorance of history but instead of learning a single fucking thing he keeps pontificating and strutting around, proudly showing his ignorance to all of the world.

The only result of this stupid aggression will be USA and Israel pulling out sooner or later, with very lenient (or even favorable) conditions for Iran, strengthening not only Irans standing in the world (of the middle east) as someone who "resisted" the military might of the US. But not only that, domestically the regime will be reinforced as well, and the overall result will be exactly the opposite of what was intended.

[Ivan Denisovich]

Leo thinks international law applies only to the "bad guys". He thinks it does not apply to the "good guys". He thinks if you are a "good guy", you can attack and invade "bad guys" countries at will. After all its for a greater good. It does not matter so much that in 4 weeks of aggression more civilians have been killed than the mullahs kill in an average year. Leo thinks is perfectly ok to kill people in order to liberate people. Sacrifices do have to be made but, after all, they have to be made by others. Thats why its ok to be sanctimonious and preach to others about what is "good" or not.

Netanyahus Israel and Trumps USA do have as much interest in the well-being and freedoms of iranian people than the Mullahs do: None.....probably less one could argue. To think otherwise is more than just naive. But here we are, and the most naive, uneducated and ignorant person on the forum felt compelled to create a thread suggesting that everybody else but him is wrong and mislead by propaganda. In many threads he has demonstrated his complete ignorance of history but instead of learning a single fucking thing he keeps pontificating and strutting around, proudly showing his ignorance to all of the world.

The only result of this stupid aggression will be USA and Israel pulling out sooner or later, with very lenient (or even favorable) conditions for Iran, strengthening not only Irans standing in the world (of the middle east) as someone who "resisted" the military might of the US. But not only that, domestically the regime will be reinforced as well, and the overall result will be exactly the opposite of what was intended.

To me he is just walking sack of shit without iota of concern for victims but full of understanding when it comes to aggressors and their bullshit reasons for attacks. He is exactly the type of person that authoritarian regimes produce - ignorant, supportive of idiotic acts aggression and without hint of morals.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Cross V Cross and Crescent V Crescent have also always been a thing.  The founder of islam was a damned warlord, and the popularizers of christianity were no slouch there either.  It's not especially bad or particularly uncommon when muslims kill muslims Leo, it's business as usual.  The idea that violence is better or worse if it's export or domestic is shaky in and of itself.  If you believed that their or your muslimness was or even should be some sort of talisman against predation.....ya might be more like the warlords and crusaders than you think.

Crusaders attacked more Byzantine cities than Muslims actually. You should watch this Neil DeGrasse Tyson comments on war (and a bit later) on rational beliefs triggering most wars. Atheist do not do war on one another. In science or philosophy our approach is usually “What you say is not true. What I say is true. Let me show you why…”
 
When you believe strongly in something that is difficult or impossible to prove, you need some other ways to get people to agree with you (indoctrinating them when they are very young, using modern brainwashing techniques on them or subduing them with brute force). 

Here is an interesting video on this subject:




 
I’ve never challenged these ideas. That’s how I see it too. But in my way of doing things you don’t say “In the name of God the most Gracious and most Merciful” and do this kind of thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_k...n_protests
 

---

---

 
Today MBS has expressed his view that the US had to go on with its military campaign. Iranians have bombed Saudi oil fields even before October 2023. Even Israel + the US stopped the war today these Gulf countries would have to figure out on their own what to do with a half-insane regime as their northern neighbor.

+ The Iranian diaspora is still supporting this war. Iranians want this regime to be gone forever. No reform, no deal, they just want their country back (at least all of the ones I saw on TV).
 
/Sometimes I wonder if this recent pro-Iranian sentiment in many countries is not entirely the making of the Russo-Iranian propaganda machine.
 
I really have difficulty understanding some people sometimes

No one is claiming the Iranian regime is made of good or even semi-good guys. They’re basically a collection of brutal thugs. But that in no way justifies an interventionist, elective war. No only did the US have no right or justification to attack Iran, but quite frankly, those guys suck at regime change (at least by force of arms). A surer process is diplomacy, supporting anti-government groups, and giving money to poor people.

Unfortunately, your boy Trump has ignored the proven benefits of soft power in favour of shiny, expensive things that go boom. The only difference between trumpism and toddlerism is in the spelling.

Boru

[Deesse23]

The world is not a schoolyard, where you cheer for your favorite bully. At least it shouldnt be. The UN should be strengthened so it can pass resolutions* and enforce them. Unfortunately the security council is occupied mostly by rogue states (Russia, China and USA) and as long as this does not change, there is not much to do.



* resolutions on Iran have been passed long ago, but Russia and China are undermining them

[Thumpalumpacus]

Sometimes I wonder if this recent pro-Iranian sentiment in many countries is not entirely the making of the Russo-Iranian propaganda machine.

So people who disagree with you must be dupes ... got it.

I detest the regime of the mullahs, but I have nothing but fond memories of the Iranian people and the way they treated us when I lived there. They had every reason to hate America, but still treated us Americans with friendliness and generosity. I feel for them right now and am ashamed my country has laved its hands with the blood of innocent civilians.

[Leonardo17]

BrianSoddingBoru:
 
“No one is claiming the Iranian regime is made of good or even semi-good guys. They’re basically a collection of brutal thugs. But that in no way justifies an interventionist, elective war. No only did the US have no right or justification to attack Iran, but quite frankly, those guys suck at regime change (at least by force of arms). A surer process is diplomacy, supporting anti-government groups, and giving money to poor people.
Unfortunately, your boy Trump has ignored the proven benefits of soft power in favour of shiny, expensive things that go boom. The only difference between trumpism and toddlerism is in the spelling.
Boru”
 
- I think there are several (many) anti-Trump “No King” rallies in many US cities today (together with counter-demonstrations in some cities).
 
1) You need to know that I am with you on this. I’m not a Trump supporter. If you don’t show your limits to these guys these are people who are ready to dismantle all of  your democracy for their personal entitled benefits. So this is N-1.
 
N-2) I am not a social media user, but even secondary social media here (like youtube) is flooded with titles like “Muslim Iranians are defeating Netanyahu”, “Israel is being destroyed by Iran”, “Iranian heroes are resisting to the entire planet” and other nonsense like that.
 
I’m not saying that there are “good guys” vs. “Bad guys”.
 
All I am saying is (for instance) Gulf countries did not do anything to Iran, Tuktuk drivers in Bangkok did not do anything to Iran, so what’s going on here?
 
Is this “Asymmetric warfare? If so, how is this fair to all other actors of the planet who are now going to face an energy shock on their economies? Or is this also Trump’s doing?
 
/Look: this is how I am wired. I don’t like Mr D. Trump since his first term. To me he will always be the guy who contradicted Dr. Fauci live during the height of the Covid pandemic. But I simply need to see the end of the event right now. I don’t know what he + Netanyahu were intending in the first place. Just like Bush’s campaign on Irak back in 2003 we first need to see what’s happening here.
 
I’m not going to blindly support these (whatever it is you would call them) without even understanding the position of the rest of the world toward them. And Europe is in this too. If you are critical of Wahsington, are you also critical of the EU who just added the IRG to their lists of terror organizations?
If no, than how do you let what is (by definition) a terror organization constitute a permanent threat to all Gulf states and let them control a sea route through which 20% of the planet’s energy is circulating?
 
I’m ok with all forms of criticism but you still need to put all of these pieces together.
 
Even if they capitulated today. What makes you think that a regime that “sees its own citizens as İsraeli combatants” will keep its promises and (for instance) not build nuclear weapons in return for the lifting of economic sanctions?
 
I could walk out of this forum today but even so, you still would have to find some sort of answer to these questions.
 
So:
Anti-Trump: Yes
Anti-Netanyahu: check
But Pro IRI: No can do.
 
(is that clear?)