Natural Selection Seems Insufficient

[Jal]

Are you Mr. Obvious?

Yes, sensations are real, but a dream or hallucination is typically one that subjectively SEEMS to properly reflect activity in the world external to the observer, but is indeed just a figment of the observer's imagination.

See? I can play Mr. Obvious too.

Yup, it’s a figment, just like meeting Jesus face-to-face.

Boru

Sure, it could be a figment, but not much we can do about it, since we can't forsake it in good conscience, precisely because it's very convincing/ persuasive.

[Jal]

Oh that's right - most atheists believe that domino-effect natural selection accomplished evolution.  See the OP.

Meanwhile I'll believe that Yahweh created the species. Admittedly took him 4 billion years to finish learning how to do it well enough,  but some things take time.

It's more that most people, atheists and theists alike, accept that biology is real.   You've made this your gods problem..but in mere reality it's a you problem.  Perhaps you can see, in this light, how you've found yourself at the wrong place.  If you wanted to know how people could believe™ in evolution...you probably should have taken this up with your own.

You're overstating the point. Biology as a science doesn't become completely void and useless, merely on the acceptance of creation. 

Perhaps it could accelerate biology advancement, as students would stop wasting time running down (ahistorical) rabbit holes.

[The Grand Nudger]

Your hedging doesn't mean anything to me. You're either committed to being a dolt or you aren't..but again..that's not gods problem, or a problem that christians at large have.

It's a you problem.

[Jal]

Your hedging doesn't mean anything to me.  You're either committed to being a dolt or you aren't..but again..that's not gods problem, or a problem that christians at large have.

It's a you problem.

Name calling. As usual, a very convincing form of debate.

[The Grand Nudger]

Who's debating anything? It's just a fact that many people who believe in gods do not have the problems you have. That these are your problems. Not god's problems. Not biology's problems. Not even theism's problems. Certainly not atheism's problems.

You problems.

[Jal]

Who's debating anything?  It's just a fact that many people who believe in gods do not have the problems you have.  That these are your problems.  Not god's problems.  Not biology's problems.  Not even theism's problems.  Certainly not atheism's problems.

You problems.

What problems? The only "problem" known to me is that I try to reject idiotic ideas wherever I seem to find them, whether in theology, philosophy, or science.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're the one who's been telling us how happy you are with finding a solution to all of these christian problems, Jal.

Good lord, own your own shit.

[Angrboda]

You've shown that you base many of your conclusions on incredulity.  Convincing you that you've had a mystical experience is a low bar.  When it comes to actual thinking, you've yet to provide support for your principle that the intangible can't affect the tangible beyond your incredulity.  Without support for that, the rest of this is just pissing in the wind.

Nobody has shown that my golf ball analogy lacks substance.

Look, self-locomotion by free will, like self-awareness, is a fact of our experience. That's one way a piece of matter can move - it moves itself. Trying to explain this mystery is like trying to explain why reality exists, or trying to explain why consciousness exists.

The OTHER way for a piece of matter to move is to be pushed by another piece of matter. Nobody thinks to himself, "I want to hit this tangible golfball. Maybe an intangible golf club will  hit it far enough."

Some things are just stupid.

You lying sack of shit. I showed your golf ball analogy was bollocks. ChatGPT showed your golf ball analogy was bollocks. And now you're showing that you're a dishonest cunt.

[Jal]

Nobody has shown that my golf ball analogy lacks substance.

Look, self-locomotion by free will, like self-awareness, is a fact of our experience. That's one way a piece of matter can move - it moves itself. Trying to explain this mystery is like trying to explain why reality exists, or trying to explain why consciousness exists.

The OTHER way for a piece of matter to move is to be pushed by another piece of matter. Nobody thinks to himself, "I want to hit this tangible golfball. Maybe an intangible golf club will  hit it far enough."

Some things are just stupid.

You lying sack of shit.  I showed your golf ball analogy was bollocks.  ChatGPT showed your golf ball analogy was bollocks.  And now you're showing that you're a dishonest cunt.

I can't just take ChatGPT on blind faith. Claiming something isn't the same thing as demonstrating it philosophically or empirically.  Generally, the proposal should at least make sense.

What doesn't make sense: an intangible entity making a tangible impact.

[Angrboda]

You lying sack of shit.  I showed your golf ball analogy was bollocks.  ChatGPT showed your golf ball analogy was bollocks.  And now you're showing that you're a dishonest cunt.

I can't just take ChatGPT on blind faith. Claiming something isn't the same thing as demonstrating it philosophically or empirically.  Generally, the proposal should at least make sense.

What doesn't make sense: an intangible entity making a tangible impact.

It doesn't make sense to you. That's not the same as it not making sense. ChatGPT's point was true by inspection. And that ignores that I'd already refuted it with Hume. So quit lying.