The Soul

[Cinjin]

Thanks CC, very interesting.

Well I might disagree about the highly intelligent people bit!

The only difference to me is... sound theology: is what nut job religions lack.

I know people who are very Godly, who look to live their lives in tune with God and who can express themselves in relation to God. They appear anything but delusional. They are sincere people who live out their belief like the ancient people in the bible did. Thinking of the world with God integral to it.

Do I claim knowledge of an afterlife? No. Do I concede the possibility given sound theological reasoning? Yes.

What do you mean by "next stage of existence"? Are you talking about your re-incarnation?

I really don't know. Re-incarnation is a fun idea because of the now common adage - "you have an old soul", but I don't have a working theory/belief on what that next stage might be. Honestly, after studying religion for 20 years -- I just don't care.

My life I control. My death is inevitable, but my soul is not my concern. I cannot control it anymore than I control the rotation of the earth. I leave it to God ... and if I'm wrong, so be it. I have more peace with this sentiment than I have ever come close to knowing prior.

[Kayenneh]

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I did not miss the first line at all, I just don't understand in that case what else could go on in a human being after death, if not the supposedly immortal soul.
If the soul isn't biological, chemical, physical or psychological, then we either are missing a vital science that could show us what a soul is, or then there is no such thing. For me personally I need research and evidence before I'm convinced that I've got a soul. The things you talk about are to me psychological, alas, it has to do with the psyche and not necessarily a soul. And don't get me started on the morality of the god of the Bible, but I think I'll leave that to another debate.

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More accurately I believe it's the spirit which carries on, but we're talking about the same thing What I'm trying to say is that this is of least importance to Christians. What's really important is the present and how you can improve that. That's what fellowship with Christ enables.

Science, as it defines itself, does not cover the metaphysical, only the physical. So if you're waiting for scientific evidence then your wait is for science. If you're waiting for current science to prove the metaphysical then that's illogical.

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If you disagree with the morality of the Christian God then you disagree with the Christian premise and you won't be addressing Christianity. That being said many forum members here would gladly join you in such debate on a non premise.

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[fr0d0]

I really don't know. Re-incarnation is a fun idea because of the now common adage - "you have an old soul", but I don't have a working theory/belief on what that next stage might be. Honestly, after studying religion for 20 years -- I just don't care.

My life I control. My death is inevitable, but my soul is not my concern. I cannot control it anymore than I control the rotation of the earth. I leave it to God ... and if I'm wrong, so be it. I have more peace with this sentiment than I have ever come close to knowing prior.

Cool I can dig that. I must admit to much the same attitude. I think we're aware of spiritual reality (funny oxymoron ). Perhaps that's our spirit/ soul. I think Xtian Orthadoxy would agree with you about part of us being outside our control.

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Ah, in that case I understand you a little better, but I'm also more confused. Spirit and soul, what's the difference?
Since I don't believe in anything metaphysical either, I'm suggesting that if the soul was a real thing, then it could be proven. Perhaps not by any branch of science we know today, but who knows what we might discover in the future.

Soul in some definitions is fully human. There's lots of mention (in the bible) of feeding the soul. And even losing the soul to follow Christ (I saw yesterday - must cross check that one(maybe someone else could expand)). Where the spirit is part of God (God being father son and spirit) and our likeness to him. Our spirit can be empty (denial of God) or open to it. As I understand.

The Christian premise is that God is provable via logic. Necessarily pertaining to the personal.

[Kayenneh]

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I really don't know. Re-incarnation is a fun idea because of the now common adage - "you have an old soul", but I don't have a working theory/belief on what that next stage might be. Honestly, after studying religion for 20 years -- I just don't care.

My life I control. My death is inevitable, but my soul is not my concern. I cannot control it anymore than I control the rotation of the earth. I leave it to God ... and if I'm wrong, so be it. I have more peace with this sentiment than I have ever come close to knowing prior.

Cool I can dig that. I must admit to much the same attitude. I think we're aware of spiritual reality (funny oxymoron ). Perhaps that's our spirit/ soul. I think Xtian Orthadoxy would agree with you about part of us being outside our control.

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Ah, in that case I understand you a little better, but I'm also more confused. Spirit and soul, what's the difference?
Since I don't believe in anything metaphysical either, I'm suggesting that if the soul was a real thing, then it could be proven. Perhaps not by any branch of science we know today, but who knows what we might discover in the future.

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Soul in some definitions is fully human. There's lots of mention (in the bible) of feeding the soul. And even losing the soul to follow Christ (I saw yesterday - must cross check that one(maybe someone else could expand)). Where the spirit is part of God (God being father son and spirit) and our likeness to him. Our spirit can be empty (denial of God) or open to it. As I understand.

The Christian premise is that God is provable via logic. Necessarily pertaining to the personal.

Thanks for clearing that up, it's hard to debate if I don't have my vocabulary straight But frankly, I think both spirit and soul in that case is a load of bollocks, but that is really just my opinion. If I had proof of anything concerning this matter, I wouldn't be in the philosophy forum wondering about it. But unfortunately, as you might guess, the Bible doesn't count as evidence in my books. I'm very source critical
God and logic would also make for a very nice debate, but I'll try to keep to the original topic, so maybe another time(?)

[fr0d0]

So is it only the bible you discount as intellectual evidence or do you discount all intellectual evidence? Hehe

[Nimzo]

The Christian premise is that God is provable via logic.

It is???

[fr0d0]

Of course it is *beats Nimzo with a stick* (oops - this isn't chat )

[Nimzo]

Of course it is *beats Nimzo with a stick* (oops - this isn't chat )

Oh, well I'll take your word for it then!





*applies melon vigorously to fr0d0's bonce*

[fr0d0]

*accepts melon and realises his mistake*

Ok I retract the statement.

[Kayenneh]

So is it only the bible you discount as intellectual evidence or do you discount all intellectual evidence? Hehe

I don't count the Bible (or any of the other holy scriptures) as a scientific text, thus not as evidence. As for the intellectual part; there's great philosophical wisdom in the Bible, but also a lot of folly. I imagine that is what happens when one collects a lot of writings from different authors and put them toghether between one cover.