The Soul

[Pel]

Kayeneh, I am not offended because of your suggestion that I should see a psychologist. I suffer from paranoid schizophrenia, co morbid anxiety disorder and mild depression.

I am curently under the care of a mental health clinic. However I am starting work tomorrow so that means that I am not psychotic at the moment.

These particular dreams are not going on at the moment. I would normally be getting them when sick/psychotic or when I would be trying to come off antidepressants wich are used for anxiety and ofcourse depression.

So there is scientific explanation for what's happening to me or has happened. However, the presence of evil that I felt in these dreams feels like something from the outside. Not fear or anxiety but evil. I mean I would feel fear but this is hard to explain. I am convinced it is something external but I could be wrong because anything is possible.

I have been seing a psychologist for about year and a half. I haven't seen him for about five months. He is an atheist, ex Christian. He is not convinced those are demons in my dreams either. I don't plan on changing psychologists because he is great.

As a kid I had nightmares but never thought they were demons like since I got diagnosed. If I was to ignore those experiences and say its just chemicals than I wouldn't be honest with my self or others because it feels more than that.

Thanks

[Kayenneh]

In that case I understand you a little better. I do understand that to you that presence of evil is quite real, but I think you understand that it isn't enough to convince me. Anyhow it seems like a frightening experience.

It's great if you like your psychologist and are getting help(?) already! Too many suffer because they feel ashamed to ask for help.

Oh,and good luck on your first workday, hope you'll enjoy whatever you do. ^_^

[Cinjin]

... the presence of evil that I felt in these dreams feels like something from the outside. Not fear or anxiety but evil. I mean I would feel fear but this is hard to explain. I am convinced it is something external but I could be wrong because anything is possible.

Giving any kind of credence in your head to those kinds of delusions is very dangerous for someone with your mental health concerns. Even by writing that you are convinced that your dreams are caused by external evil creates a "reality" that in all likelihood does not exist. Don't believe me? Research the stories of public offenders who have been questioned regarding their brutal assaults on others in open view of the public. Nearly every single one of them makes claims to a slow decent into believing in external forces driving them to their violent actions.

I have been seeing a psychologist for about year and a half. I haven't seen him for about five months. He is an atheist, ex Christian. He is not convinced those are demons in my dreams either. I don't plan on changing psychologists because he is great.

Listen to your psychologist. Don't lend any more credibility to this external evil idea. I would fight it in your head tooth and nail. You (as in anyone) can make yourself believe anything you want if you tell yourself enough times that it's true. Fortunately, this can work the other way too. Stop believing in the boogeyman and eventually, your mind will have power over your dreams and you will sleep like a baby.

......as Kay said, you're not the only one who has had terrifying dreams.

[Rhizomorph13]

---

Rhiz, I have had some strange experiences such as nightmares in wich I felt presence of evil so strong that I am convinced that it was from the outside. I was totally tormented In these nightmares by evil looking characters. That's why I believe in some sort of evil spirits. So I thought that they were creatures like us who decided to be bad.

There is a hadis(second source of Islamic teachings) that says that nightmare are from shaitan. That doesn't make me believe in Islam but I think that those religious Muslims who wrote those things simply contemplaited and got some things right or close to right.

So if evil spiritual beings exist I don't see those of us who choose good would not continue on. By the way I would rather look at civilised law of a good country to define good, not the quran hadis or the bible. I actually think that budhist ethics are preaty good but they don't believe in God and I do.

Rhizo and everyone else , this is an honest answer as to why am I certain, but even before these experienced I was a believer only now being a deist I discover God and devine in general by thinking what makes sense to me. For instance hell just makes no sense especially not eternally hell. I think that many religious scriptures that are followed were inspired by evil spirits.

Sorry everyone for going a bit of the subject. I thought I might explain a bit more.

Atheists, muslims, everyone, the God I believe in loves you all and wants you to remain good and honest. And after reading traditional scriptures it is only natural to end up atheist.

Thanks

---

Interesting. I used to believe in souls when I first started out here on these forums due to some weird experiences I had, but with a bit of thought and discussion I rejected that belief. Here is the thread if you're interested: http://atheistforums.org/thread-2037.html

Here is my experience from that thread:

The main reason I believe in a soul is because of an experience I had where I slowly rose out of my body and saw a silver thread connecting me to my astral body to my physical body. I had never read anything about astral projection so I had no prior knowledge that would lead me to create the hallucination of a silver thread. "The Llewelyn Practical Guide to Astral Projection" talks at length about the silver thread and there were other things that matched my experience.

My idea of a soul does not necessarily posit a seperate body that remains intact after death although it might account for ghost sightings if it did exist at least for a while after death. If there was a part that lived on it would be the spirit and I am pretty sure that doesn't exist. The soul for me would be comprised of the energetic part of the body and the mind.

The model of reality I used to believe was comprised of a triune existence, that was supported by scripture but was kind of sciency. The three parts were God the Father (spirit, volition, impetus of being), God the son (body, matter, physical reality), and The Holy Ghost(soul, energy, energetic force). I've since abandoned it but it did help me reconcile what I read in the bible and what I perceived with my senses.

The bottom line, is; if you find yourself supporting a position with a dream experience it is almost certainly a false position.

[DeistPaladin]

[quote='Rhizomorph13' pid='147330' dateline='1308667868']
Here is my experience from that thread:
[quote]The main reason I believe in a soul is because of an experience I had where I slowly rose out of my body and saw a silver thread connecting me to my astral body to my physical body. I had never read anything about astral projection so I had no prior knowledge that would lead me to create the hallucination of a silver thread.
[/quote]

Oh, right, that's what it says in the sacred scriptures. Something about how you can travel through the Astral Plane provided you have the right spell or magic items. A silver cord connects you to your body but it can be severed by the Githiyanki silver swords. There are various colored pools that you can move through to access certain planes of existence, such as the elemental planes, celestial realms or...

And you know your a fellow nerd when you understood the above.

[Epimethean]

Dungeons & Dragons Fiend Folio, I believe.

[Rhizomorph13]

DP,

For that particular experience the "magic" items I used were cocaine and some KGB.

[Napoléon]

---

[DeistPaladin]

DP,

For that particular experience the "magic" items I used were cocaine and some KGB.

Soviet agents were involved with your exploration of the Astral Plane? Damn. First they beat us into space and now the beat us into the race for the spirit realm.

[Minimalist]

Atheists, muslims, everyone, the God I believe in loves you all and wants you to remain good and honest.

Which actually answers the question raised in the thread about why don't people make up their own gods. Apparently they do.