I Find It Offensive; How About You

[MilesTailsPrower]

Definition of Freethinker: Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any other dogma.

It's doesn't necessarily mean that only atheists are free thinker, because one could form a opinion with science logic and reason. It just describes the process of open-minded thought rather than rejecting religion.

I just prefer the term "Atheist" because it gets the point across without any other arguments such as this one.

[LastPoet]

Then you're not a freethinker either, no? You have no scientific proof that a God doesn't exist, so you would be in the same boat as us. Really, the only ones who are freethinkers would be agnostics because they neither deny or accept the theory of a god or gods existing.

Ahhh! Fresh meat to the grinder

[Darth]

To make this easy: Agnosticism and gnosticism talk about knowledge, atheism and theism talk about belief. They talk about different things, and are the answers to different questions. Do you believe in a god? yes or no (theism vs atheism). Do you think that it is possible to know? Yes or no(Gnosticism vs agnosticism). Agnosticism is NOT a middle ground between theism and atheism. People who define themselves as purely agnostic are making a category error. They don't believe? Then they are an atheist, it doesn't matter if they don't believe BECAUSE they can't know, their lack of belief makes them an atheist (As an atheist is, by definition a person who lacks belief in a god or gods, OR believes that no god or gods exist)

Gnostic theist: Believes in a god/s, and thinks that it is possible to know
Agnostic theist: Believes in a god/s, but thinks that it is not possible to know, its a faith/belief thing
Agnostic atheist: Doesn't believe, but thinks that it is not possible to know
Gnostic atheist: Doesn't believe, and thinks that it is possible to know

I'm an agnostic atheist in respect to the deistic god concepts, but a gnostic atheist in regards to the Yahweh the Malevolent. It is of course much more complex than I've made it out to be above, each is actually a spectrum, but that will do for now.

The freethinkers explain (and with more examination of the nuances and spectrums): http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/ (Though of course feel free to google any of those 4 terms for yourself, you mightn't feel we are the most unbiased sources, having said that, this is how many of us classify ourselves)

I think you'll find most atheists classify themselves as agnostic atheists (Though it of course depends on which god concept you are referring to).

(Gnostic does have another meaning, it is/was another form of christianity and other faiths. But we're talking about gnostic as the antonym to agnostic)

[Tiberius]

'Freethinker' doesn't just apply to atheists, it applies to anyone who doesn't rely on dogma in order to think. This can include Christians.

Remember folks, believing in the contents of a book doesn't necessarily mean a person relies on it in order to think or live their life. Some atheists can be the complete opposite of freethinkers, whilst some Christians (including a lot of the more respected Christian members of these forums) can be freethinkers by definition.

[Cinjin]

I was willing to entertain your thread until you typed this absurdity:

Then you're not a freethinker either, no? You have no scientific proof that a God doesn't exist, so you would be in the same boat as us.

[Whateverist]

You said in your introduction, you were a christian from birth. That means you didn't choose. If you were born in Palestine you would be a Muslim, tel aviv, a Jew etc.

Free thinker applies to me and other atheists because we are not locked by religious dogma.

Wouldn't you think that children brought up outside religion would be as likely to adopt atheism? That hasn't been true in our experience. Maybe there is a god gene, some sort of evolutionary predisposition, that leaves everyone susceptible?

My wife wasn't brought up with religion and has no interest in it. I was brought up in a christian fundamentalist home. I was a little crusader, thinking what ingrates non-christians were, when I was in lower elementary school. By later elementary school I had doubts and by middle school I'd decided against christianity. It nonetheless took me years to lose that feeling of having lost something and the desire to justify myself.

My stepson was brought up by us and isn't aligned with any mainstream religion but he is spiritually obsessed. That is probably the influence of his bio-dad. So in fact his case isn't really one of being brought up outside of religion. I think he regards us as "muggles" in the Harry Potter sense. From our point of view he puts way to much stock in 'spiritual experts' that leave him open to exploitation.

Okay, now I'm just rambling.

[azharrison]

Muggles! That is brilliant.

[fr0d0]

A Freethinker thinks for him or herself, rather than thinking what they are supposed to think according to someone else. It's as simple as that, really.

Which makes most atheists not free thinkers, because most are simply following the majority opinion.

@ whateverist: yeah your stepson clearly chose himself/ his opinion is demonstrably 'free' (if we are to believe your anti theism influence was pervasive).

(Incidentally I think ignorance of spirituality is what leaves you open to a nonsensical influence )

[BloodyHeretic]

A Freethinker thinks for him or herself, rather than thinking what they are supposed to think according to someone else. It's as simple as that, really.

Which makes most atheists not free thinkers, because most are simply following the majority opinion.

I disagree, atheism is not the majority opinion, anywhere in the world as far as I know.

[Darwinian]

A Freethinker thinks for him or herself, rather than thinking what they are supposed to think according to someone else. It's as simple as that, really.

Which makes most atheists not free thinkers, because most are simply following the majority opinion.

By that logic then, none of us are truly free thinkers as to some extent we are all products of our environment and conditioned to behave in certain ways due to peer pressure and social conditioning.