I Find It Offensive; How About You

[fr0d0]

I disagree, atheism is not the majority opinion, anywhere in the world as far as I know.

The four horsemen wouldn't be making such a good living at it if that were true. Just look at worldwide popular culture. In my immediate vicinity in the UK nearly everyone is atheist... Church attendance is at about 9%. Yet UK stats show that 70+% state a belief in a deity. I call bollocks.

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By that logic then, none of us are truly free thinkers as to some extent we are all products of our environment and conditioned to behave in certain ways due to peer pressure and social conditioning.

Yeah absolutely... you're right of course Dad. How wise you are *sighs*

[DaveD]

I disagree, atheism is not the majority opinion, anywhere in the world as far as I know.

The four horsemen wouldn't be making such a good living at it if that were true. Just look at worldwide popular culture. In my immediate vicinity in the UK nearly everyone is atheist... Church attendance is at about 9%. Yet UK stats show that 70+% state a belief in a deity. I call bollocks.

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A belief in a god does not oblige someone to go to church. Neither is a believer forbidden from buying a book, whatever various shamen might say.
My stepfather was raised Catholic but, although he still believes in God, he doesn't attend masses, out of disgust for the shenanigans in the Church, especially the child abuse scandal.

[BloodyHeretic]

I disagree, atheism is not the majority opinion, anywhere in the world as far as I know.

The four horsemen wouldn't be making such a good living at it if that were true. Just look at worldwide popular culture. In my immediate vicinity in the UK nearly everyone is atheist... Church attendance is at about 9%. Yet UK stats show that 70+% state a belief in a deity. I call bollocks.

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No such thing as world wide popular culture, western popular culture maybe. If you don't want to believe the statistics about the popularity of atheism, well, then you can assert whatever you want.

[Violet]

Worldwide popular culture: the internet.



Incase you were not given a formal welcome:



Behave yourself.

[reverendjeremiah]

Please don't resort to belittling my beliefs and calling Jesus a 'zombie'. Yes, but I could have changed my beliefs later in life, but I didn't. I believe in evolution too, and I don't believe all of what the Bible says to be true, only some of it. I made a choice not to believe in the ridiculous things in the Bible. Doesn't that make me a freethinker by that logic? I still hold true to my belief that Agnostics are the only freethinkers, though. In any case, I have to leave now, I look forward to talking about this later with you all.

You have merely utilized freethought in that situation, but it doesnt make you a freethinker.

If you run to the elevator to catch it before the doors close, does that make you someone who can describe themselves as a runner? If you happen to fix a broken electrical wire in your home, does that make you an electrician? If you cook food for yourself does that make you a cook? If you change the sparkplugs on your car does that make you a mechanic?

Im an atheist..if I walk into church and participate with the congregants, does that make me a Christian? If I agree that "do unto others" is a good code to live by, does that make me religious?

[twocompulsive]

Firstly I would never identify myself as a freethinker per se , because that implies - to me at least - that I am capable at any time to formulate an opinion on any subject. Now this isn't exactly what it does mean, but free is defined as unfettered or unrestrained. It is more accurate to state that it is the acceptance of an opinion based on rational, objective means as opposed to irrational, subjective ones. But how many of us only employ the left side of our brain ? We are just as much emotional creatures as logical ones.

However I myself try to understand the world by employing logic and reason. I am probably a rationalist, that is to say that I do not believe in anything unless it can be proven. This is slightly disingenuous. It could very well be that whatever I do not believe in actually does exist and I should at the very least keep an open mind. But sometimes it is hard. I regularly deviate between believing there is no God period to the possibility of there being one, even though proof is not forthcoming. The former is rather dogmatic and the latter rather accommodating. I prefer the latter. But arguing about the existence / non-existence of God is academic since neither side can categorically demonstrate the validity of their position that will satisfy all.

But when we are referncing something which can be established by physical means, then there really is zero excuse for non-acceptance. No one can call themselves a freethinker if they, for example think the Earth is only 10,000 years old, Man and dinosaur existed simultaneously or that we do not share an ancestry with apes. For all this can be demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt to be patently false. I am the world's greatest believer in taking anything and stripping it down to see if it is true or not. Nothing should be taken at face value. Nothing. Question everything including what you hold to be true to yourself. It is the only way to truly understand. And if that means having to eat humble pie, then so be it. I myself was uncompromisingly taken apart today because of my personal opinions on Hitler which some may find unacceptable. But I am glad they did that. Because now I understand more clearly. Remember no one is immune. We all are prone to error. Brutal self-analysis is the order of the day. Push yourself to the limit. And then some.

The great thing about rational sites is that they are generally populated by those with a low tolerance to nonsense, And they are the ideal place to really see how much of a freethinker one is. The intellectual capability here is probably rivalled by only one other rational site. Nevertheless. We must all strive to be as logical, rational and subjective as possible when it comes to understanding the world we live in. And if there is ambiguity or uncertainity on a particular issue, then let it be. As Frank Zappa once said : A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it isn't open. I would like to think that mine is. I fear I may have rambled off topic. Apologies, but I felt it important to get this down. It matters. Thank you.

[Anomalocaris]

That Christians, and anyone who isn't an Atheist for that matter, is not a 'Free' Thinker. I may believe in Christianity, but that doesn't mean I'm not a free thinker! I made a choice to be a Christian which means I freely chose to be one. I was not forced to be one. Even as a Christian I can freely think. Can someone explain to me how the term 'Free' Thinker only applies to Atheists?

You focus too much on the word "free" The label also contains the word "think". While a christain isn't a free thinker, that does not necessarily mean he is not free. It could equally well mean he is an idiot whose mental process, even while free, does not rise to the caliber expected of "think".

[TheologicalThinker1]

I apologize for the lack of communication on my part; my computer caught a virus yesterday. Long story short, I had to restore it back to factory defaults and now I'm busy restoring tings via downloading them and using my back up CD. The virus was clearly the work of the Devil.... just kidding, I'm not that stupid. In any case, I'll try to read and respond to most of these arguments in a little bit.

TheologicalThinker1

[Violet]

It's the work of a think called 'porn sites' and a reason why you shouldn't be fast and loose on the internet

[Whateverist]

Frodo, I agree with you that "ignorance of spirituality is what leaves you open to a nonsensical influence". (His mother and I have had this talk also. Rolling her eyes and calling everything "woo woo" probably isn't the best way to invite dialogue.) Of course for knowledge of spirituality to inoculate one from questionable influences, the dose has to be one the patient's system can fight off. So while I essentially agree with you, the alternative to spiritual ignorance isn't without risk.

I myself have no regrets for having started out life religious. It wasn't a waste. I was fortunate to get a steady dose of it early on and then lots of time to mull it over on my own without any pushy, proselytizing adults around. My father was the one who wanted us 'in the fold' but being in the navy he was often out to sea for long periods of time. My mother, though religious in her own way, was not about to pack the lot of us off to church in his absence. I think I picked up her common sense approach to religion. I had lots of time to think about the nature of god and what god would most appreciate from his favorite species. Before I read what Mark Twain wrote about it, it always seemed absurd to me that god would care about our 'praise'. It seemed equally absurd to imagine god as a strict parent who simply wanted all his rules followed - or else. What I decided was that god would be most pleased with people who stood behind their own choices for their own reasons. I wanted to be worthy. God would want friends, not rule following toadies who were forever pushing their decisions on him and then whining for help. (Sorry, but "him" is what I imagined when I was a kid.)